TLDR: democrats stay on brand being complete and utter shitheads.
The Democrats are never going to be able to build a liberal Joe Rogan because a liberal is going to have to stay extremely Centrist to appease the Democrats. So they're not going to appeal to the left and they're not going to appeal to the right, so they'll start veering right more because that's where the money is going to be. I mean hell people say Joe Rogan used to be left. I don't agree with that I think he was just a fan of weed and got swept up in Bernie Sanders enthusiasm, I don't think he was actually ever a leftist. However he chased the bag. Because it was a big fucking bag. That's why he's where he is now.
All this...All of it. ☝️
instead of propping up a creator who checks the perfect ideological boxes
Which is to say, slavishly regurgitates all of the just barely to the left of the Republicsns neoliberal swill that keeps losing elections.
Democrats should embrace the online spaces for young men that already exist.
What? Actually going with what the people actually support rather than trying to force some corporate-approved hack that nobodly likes on them, then blaming them when they predictably lose?
What a novel idea.
For example, creators like Hasan Piker, a left-leaning creator with over 5.5 million subscribers on Twitch and broad popularity among young men, has largely been ignored by the Democratic establishment.
And gee... I wonder why....
Piker’s political content leans farther left, sharing a populist economic message paired with strong criticism of U.S. foreign policy in Israel.
Oh. my. who. would. have. guessed. that.? Gee. whiz. what. a. surprise.
There is a tendency to shy away from those spaces because our favorite thing to do in the Democratic Party is to, pardon my language, shit on the left,” said Smith.
Huh. I thought their favorite thing to do was to lose elections.
Same thing either way though....
And I'm calling it now -;the Dem leadership is going to waste their time and money ham-fistedly promoting a pathetically transparent neoliberal shill, then blame everyone but themselves when they utterly and completely and entirely predictably fail.
The Democrats will try anything other than policies that actually help people.
I continue to despise the idea that what the left wing 'needs' is to act like the right wing.
Well what we're currently doing is obviously not working and what they're doing is. Currently the main idea I see on the left for trying to get young men interested is... Nothing at all. This is a losing battle so it's no wonder people are looking at the ones who are actually getting young men interested and engaged with politics are, and those are the political right.
I actually agree that Democrats need more media to capture the groups of Young Men, and Boundless Anger.
The first one, quite honestly, needs to answer in some ways the questions of “How do I get a girl, and what’s my place in life.”
The second one is harder when your goal is not to inflame it further. But ideally, someone should at least be reflecting that anger, even if they help diminish it. The formal, rehearsed, college speeches of Democratic senators is politician-speak that doesn’t appeal to anyone frustrated at the country.
Exactly.
The right (and foreign powers) have been dumping tons of money to promote and prop up right wing influencers for years. There doesn't even seem to be a litmus test other than 1) will they move people towards our general direction, and 2) will they regurgitate talking points we toss to them.
The right have been reaping huge dividends from promoting people in this space. Influencers on the left exist, but are having a lot harder time without access to similar resources.
The takeaway isn't to do what the right is doing by promote sleezy influencers... but funding existing and successful influencers left of center, even if there isn't 100% alignment could have a big impact in this space and help level the field.
I mean it's already John Oliver?
The only person that can defeat Joe is Bill Burr. He’s left centrist and that Boston accent pulls people from the right because he’s relatable and unassumingly based.
I don't see how it can work because in general left leaning people have a brain and the form their own opinions. We're not out looking for some hero daddy figure to tell us what to think.
Building propoganda to make the current democrats seem good isn't the solution. The democrats actually need to be good. But, of course, that will never happen because it would mean dumping the billionaires and the Zionists. We're fucked.
For example, creators like Hasan Piker, a left-leaning creator with over 5.5 million subscribers on Twitch and broad popularity among young men, has largely been ignored by the Democratic establishment. Piker’s political content leans farther left, sharing a populist economic message paired with strong criticism of U.S. foreign policy in Israel.
They know that their billionaire donors would rather they build a neoliberal Joe Rogan rather than help support someone one iota to the left of the status quo
Instead of building a liberal Joe Rogan, they should be mocking the concept of Joe Rogan and destroying him. Make him damaged goods. Make him a joke. “Where do you get your news, dumbass? Joe Rogan? Or, some other pothead like him?”
There’s no need to throw around the term “pothead” like it’s 1995. Most of the country smokes weed. The Dems are really good at alienating people, so I wouldn’t put it past them to say such a thing, but the issue with Rogan has nothing to do with his use of intoxicants.
You’re not going to make him “damaged goods” because a huge part of his appeal is that he’s a conspiracy theorist asshole who platforms people that completely fly in the face of conventional wisdom. Again, that does sound like a good way to lose an election, i.e. a Democratic Party strategy. Maybe you should work for them.
Actually, I think you're both right. Yes, Joe Rogan (as a cultural phenomenon) has no good reason to exist and I, too, want to see him destroyed.
But the evidence is mounting that many people love to listen to a wretched, moronic, self-important piece of shit like him (or Alex Jones or countless others on the right). Because he validates all of their worst tendencies for bigotry, conspiracist thinking, and intellectual laziness. Building up another Hasan Piker or Jimmy Dore isn't helping because all they do is preach to the choir.
If you want meaningful change you have to get money out of politics, reform the voting system, and focus on education. Not that any of that is going to happen without a major upheaval but hey, I'm trying to be constructive here...
I get your goal, but denigrating them won't work. They tried that with Donald Trump. They tried it with Alex Jones. Neither of these cases resulted in a smaller aufience for those two- instead they became the figureheads of their respective demographics, audiences swollen by those the Democrats (and traditional Republicans) dispossess and mock as being "too fringe".
Because they don't want someone who's actually left. They want someone who pretends to be left while actually shilling for Democrats, who are neoliberal (i.e. economic right-wing).
Or even more general: Someone who's popular will almost by definition be anti-establishment, because the establishment is often shit and someone who isn't willing to say that won't be authentic. Even non-leftist insurgent voices (David Hogg seems pretty mainstream progressive, for example) are immediately attacked, so an authentic speaker would never stay in their good graces.
We just need a new Mr. Rogers.
That's All.
They already tried the “Dirtbag Left”. The problem was that, if they’re meant to be edgelord assholes, they don’t stay reliably left.
Joe Rogan was the liberal Joe Rogan. What they should do is study how he fell to the right because that's basically how everyone in America did. There's plenty of his podcasts material to work with. In his very early years he had plenty of scientists and actual doctors and interesting people on there where he would just shut the fuck up and listen. It took years for his public opinions and guest pool to devolve to what they are now.
Money. The answer is money. No study is needed, it was just greed. You're not going to come across some grand character arc of a "good guy turning into bad guy" with some kind of study. He was always a greedy bad guy from when he started on Fear Factor. The more outrageously dumb his podcasts became with really off the wall guests, the more money came in.
I think there's also an anti-intellectual streak in this country where some idiots think that contrarianism is a shortcut to the truth.
I listened to a lot of joe Rogen back in my podcast years. It was definitely the money and he pretty much said so a long time ago when he signed that deal to spotify. He was so excited to be even richer, that's when he fell to the darkside, it was spotify.
The leftist version of such people wouldn't be a propagandist, but a whip. Someone to help herd the cats, as it were. Someone to help keep the important things in mind in the midst of the "flood the zone" technique that disperses our efforts.
David hogg should start a podcast. He would do great! And he could start with how the dnc just screwed him over. Democrats love to hate each other just as much as Republicans love to hate democrats.
Maybe the DNC should push policies that help people instead of pretending like they need a cave man podcaster dyed blue.
It’s almost like anyone with any cultural reach and appeal would rather gnaw off their arm than be the puppet of a bunch of octogenarian war criminals
They should take the $20 million and fund actual journalists.
Lol, could you imagine the type of journalist the DNC would give 20m to?
I mean.... theyre not wrong.
I don't think there is a leftist anywhere on earth that is dumb enough to be an alternative to Joe Rogan except maybe myself. And I don't wanna.
Dems trying homeopathy. 😂
Right now the biggest difference between the left and right is structural.
The right is rushing towards the middle of their group. They insist that everyone toe the line on MAGA orthodoxy. Anyone outside of that (even more traditional conservatives) is driven out into the cold.
The left is casting as wide a net as possible. They’re trying to include as many groups as they can and basically grabbing up anyone who feels alienated by the right. There is no orthodoxy besides “stop the right at all costs.”
This is a problem for the left if they’re hoping to replicate Joe Rogan. There’s no orthodoxy to appeal to, no centre of gravity to rally around.
The GOP grew itself as the "big tent party" because it masterfully understood how to get many divergent interest groups in line. I think a lot of this just has to do with the authoritarian might that's always been central to the Republican party, and how the liberal culture is more "your refined, college educated uncle who'd rather go get high in the garage than get involved in the fight."
I don't think we need one central orthodoxy, rather we need a drum being beat loudly, and no one on our side has strong arms.
The real thing will always win from the fascist-lite version.
Boots Riley because we need to stop crying and start the revolution.
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