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submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[-] [email protected] 25 points 1 day ago

"Censorship" can mean anything from the government imprisoning you because you criticized it, to having somebody removed from your restaurant because they're yelling the N word in the faces of your customers.

Without being more specific you might as well ask if swimming is always wrong, or if hitting somebody is always wrong. Yes, hitting someone sounds like a scary wrong thing, but on the other hand there's boxing matches. Swimming is wrong if you're trespassing in someone's pool.

[-] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago

“What’s better: a cat or a dog?”

“Easy, cats. They are the superior melee weapon.”

[-] [email protected] -4 points 1 day ago

Clearly misinformation. Reported

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[-] [email protected] 14 points 1 day ago

What is with these vague, open-ended questions with no effort put in to try to provide any detail or literally anything to engage with?

Now instead of answering your question I have to ask a bunch of questions myself:

  • How, exactly, are they wrong?
    • Are they merely incorrect?
    • Are they actively spreading disinformation?
  • Is their speech causing harm? If so what kind?
    • Is it direct and measurable like hate-speech or incitements to violence?
    • Or is it something vague and nebulous like 'decadence' or 'societal harm'?
  • Who decided that they are wrong?
    • Experts?
    • Moderation teams?
    • Bureaucrats?
  • And most importantly, who is doing the censoring?
    • In what form?
    • With what authority?
    • In what medium?
    • For what purpose (actual, not stated)?

Context matters, friend. Please provide some.

[-] [email protected] -1 points 1 day ago

No matter what authority, rationale or interpretation cited, it comes to the judgment of the person actually pulling the trigger.

But this is obvious.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

LOL, banned after only a day, huh?

[-] [email protected] 12 points 1 day ago

No. People often disagree on what is right and wrong. Then the stronger part will just censor the weaker part regardless of who is wrong.

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[-] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago

"Wrong" can mean so many things.

Removing misinformation isn't censorship, for example. Similar with removing off-topic threads or comments.

Removing illegal content is censorship if the law is unjust (eg. political dissent restrictions) but not if the law is just (eg. CSAM removal).

Removing immoral content is way dicier, because morality is not fully mapped, and what one person thinks is immoral might seem perfectly moral to another (eg. blasphemy or profane language). I personally would not removed content I found immoral unless it violated community standards, and would consider such removals an overreach but not censorship unless it was selectively targeted at an individual or group.

I guess by my lights to be censorship it has to be:

  • subjective

  • unjust

  • systematic

Removing something objectively incorrect or in the wrong place is not censorship. Removing something justly proscribed is not censorship.

Removing a thread when one viewpoint or group posts about it but not when another posts about it IS censorship.

[-] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago

We're talking about removing stuff at the judgment of the presiding authority.

Rationale is infinitely flexible. It will never be science. So it cannot be relied upon.

So, ideals aside, consider it in that light. Be realistic.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

I did consider it in that light. This analysis is from the perspective of an observer, not the presiding body. Since the presiding body's reasoning cannot be known, we observers just look for patterns of removal to determine whether censorship is occurring. These are the pattern-markers I look for.

[-] [email protected] -4 points 1 day ago

Ha ha. What is the plan of this invisible deity?

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

Invisible deity? The observers are you and me.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago

No. The wrong person should be debated openly IMO

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

In Reddit and Lemmy the names of the censors are hidden, and the debate is hidden too.

I don't know how they do it on X and Facebook.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

If a post or comment is removed on lemmy you can see the removed content and who removed it in the modlog

[-] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

You can see the reason cited.

In almost all cases you cannot see who did it.

Any conversation about it is, as a rule, private

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[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

If the vast majority of people thought about anything that escaped the material world, maybe. As it is, anyone who understands how stupid, gullible, emotional, irrational, selfish and greedy human beings can be (especially those without any sort of moral code, like irreligious hedonists, for instance) and has the money to flood media with propaganda will inevitably make people believe what he or she wants.

The comments here are very idealistic, but I live in reality. I know there's one wise man out of a hundred, the others focus on practical matters and football. Unless you can just snap your fingers and make people, for instance, not be stupid and intellectually lazy enough to vote for a M/BILLIONAIRE "wise leader of the proletariat" (honestly, every time I type something Trump related I wonder how we've made it this far as a species... then I remember the atomic bomb is not even a century old 🤷), then no, you WILL have to censor some folks. Or, said passively, some folks need to be censored... Sadly, in many countries, the ones who do the mass immoral brainwashing also have the political power to silence and incarcerate those who oppose them.

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[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

If they're wrong, I think they should be censored.

All the antivaxers, all the flerfs, all the creationists, all the idiot influencers. They shouldn't be allowed a platform to spread misinformation.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago
[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

I had to look it up, flerf apparently refers to a flat earther. Not related to TERF like I originally assumed.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

Ahhh FLat ERF

[-] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

I heard about this big Christian from a hundred years ago who doubted the existence of time, space and physical objects. I like that guy.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

But sometimes you are wrong.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

Yes, but I will admit it and correct the record when my mistake is proven. The categories of idiots I mentioned will not.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

It's not about right or wrong.

Censorship is okay if the content harms those who hear it. You censor a naked man jacking off in a kindergarden because it will traumatize the children (and possibly more people).

If someone consistently spreads misinformation or disinformation that sounds convincing and will likely harm people (think donald trump and alice weidel) you need to censor them to protect those who are unable to understand the vileness of their agenda.

Equally, you need to educate both children to not go home with the nice man and the public to not listen to fascists and neoliberals.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

I think this is where my belief ends up as well. In an ideal world we have great debates and good overcomes evil, but I think most of us sooner or later come to a point where it is hard to care. Protecting the vulnerable seems to be more important than 100% freedom of speech and acts.

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this post was submitted on 30 May 2025
-15 points (30.8% liked)

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