Thanks to Greenland, a voice of sanity, in response to the muttered burblings of a demented turnip. In me you will find yet another US citizen that agrees with you, and respects your soveriegnty. The turnip is using this distraction to rob us blind, I fear.
World News
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News [email protected]
Politics [email protected]
World Politics [email protected]
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
I don't think they're that clever. Seriously. I think that all the "distractions" are crazy things their major supporters want (less regulation on putting raw sewage in drinking water), crazy things their policy architects want for stupid or awful reasons (ending birthright citizenship because you think America should be a white Christian nation), naked adoration for dictators because they're what running a country like a business looks like, or just the most transparent "negotiation" that burns good will because you don't understand that getting an agreement is good, and getting an agreement where the other side is happy too is better.
Threaten tariffs and wait a while to let the other side offer something to get you to not do it. Threaten to annex Greenland, and then compromise on guaranteed transit rights in their territorial waters and maybe some resource extraction agreements. Same for the Panama canal.
I wouldn't say it's clever either but it's the gish gallop, it's like a sportsball play where they Flood The Zone and called their little brothers from the JV team and now those guys are milling about on the field
Inb4 Trump starts invading because 2-3 MAGA nuts from greenland said they wanted to be part of US, so that's plenty of reason for the whole Greenland to need it as well - "they'll see why it's good for them once they're ours, trust me".
Trump also undermined Denmark's claim to Greenland, saying it was "very far away
He is aware USA is even further away?
I have a hard time believing the public, much less military members, have the stomach to do something like this. There's zero moral standing in it and it seems like all modern overt military actions by the US needed to have something its participants and supporters could hold up to say "I'm doing this to make the world, and my country, a better and safer place," even if that publicized nobility turned out to be a farce coughIraqcough (although I am glad Saddam got to experience what it feels like to die). Unless you're the demigod of a highly programmed autocracy like North Korea, it takes significant buy-in to wage an invasion, war, and occupation. With Greenland being a benign and peace-loving gem of nature, it would absolutely blow my mind if Trump said "CHARGE!" and military members did anything but a limp soulless salute and slow shuffle to mill about stupidly in passive protest.
"Naturally, the common people don't want war. Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
- Hermann Goering
I feel like Goering, may his shredded soul exist in agony forever, was being optimistically naive and arrogant, trying to curry favor with his fuhrer...but hey, they got a war, so maybe I'm the naive one. Here's an argument from The Dictator's Handbook by Bueno de Mesquita and Smith:
Two thousand five hundred years ago, Sun Tzu literaly wrote the book on how to wage war. Although his advice has been influential to leaders down through the centuries, leading American foreign policy advisers have contradicted his war-fighting doctrines. Ronald Reagan’s secretary of defense, Caspar Weinberger, George W. Bush’s first secretary of state, Colin Powel, and, with slight modifications, Bill Clinton’s second secretary of state, Madeleine Albright, all prescribe a doctrine of when and how the United States should fight. And it differs radicaly from the time-tested advice of Sun Tzu. The reason Sun Tzu has served so many leaders so well over twenty-five centuries is that his is the right advice for kings, chieftains, and autocrats of every shape to folow. Until recently, and with very few exceptions, small-coalition systems have been the dominant form of government. But these are the wrong policies for a leader beholden to many. Democratic war fighting emphasizes public welfare, exactly as should be the case when advising a leader who relies on a large coalition. Sun Tzu’s advice is exactly right for a small-coalition leader. To see this, let’s have a look at the ideas expressed by Sun Tzu and Caspar Weinberger. Sun Tzu contended to his king, Ho Lu of Wu, that: The skillful general does not raise a second levy, neither are his supply wagons loaded more than twice. Once war is declared, he will not waste precious time in waiting for reinforcements, nor will he turn his army back for fresh supplies, but crosses the enemy’s frontier without delay. The value of time—that is, being a little ahead of your opponent—has counted for more than either numerical superiority or the nicest calculations with regard to commissariat.... Now, in order to kill the enemy, our men must be roused to anger. For them to perceive the advantage of defeating the enemy, they must also have their rewards. Thus, when you capture spoils from the enemy, they must be used as rewards, so that all your men may have a keen desire to fight, each on his own account.
In contrast to Sun Tzu’s perspective, Caspar Weinberger maintained that: First, the United States should not commit forces to combat overseas unless the particular engagement or occasion is deemed vital to our national interest or that of our allies.... Second, if we decide it is necessary to put combat troops into a given situation, we should do so wholeheartedly, and with the clear intention of winning. If we are unwilling to commit the forces or resources necessary to achieve our objectives, we should not commit them at all.... Third, if we do decide to commit forces to combat overseas, we should have clearly defined political and military objectives. And we should know precisely how our forces can accomplish those clearly defined objectives. And we should have and send the forces needed to do just that.... Fourth, the relationship between our objectives and the forces we have committed—their size, composition, and disposition—must be continually reassessed and adjusted if necessary. Conditions and objectives invariably change during the course of a conflict. When they do change, then so must our combat requirements.... Fifth, before the United States commits combat forces abroad, there must be some reasonable assurance we will have the support of the American people and their elected representatives in Congress.... Finally, the commitment of US forces to combat should be a last resort.
Sun Tzu’s ideas can coarsely be summarized as folows: (1) an advantage in capabilities is not as important as quick action in war; (2) the resources mobilized to fight should be sufficient for a short campaign that does not require reinforcement or significant additional provisions from home; and (3) the provision of private goods is essential to motivate soldiers to fight. Sun Tzu says that if the army initially raised proves insufficient or if new supplies are required more than once, then the commanders lack sufficient skill to carry the day. In that case, he advises that it is best to give up the fight rather than risk exhausting the state’s treasure. Weinberger’s doctrine does not emphasize swift victory, but rather a willingness to spend however much is needed to achieve victory, a point made even more emphatically in the Powell Doctrine. Weinberger and Powell argue that the United States should not get involved in any war in which it is not prepared to commit enough resources to win. They, and Madeleine Albright too, argue for being very cautious about risking war. Once a decision is made to take that risk, then, as Weinberger (and Powell) recognize, the United States must be prepared to raise a larger army and to spend more treasure if necessitated by developments on the ground. War should only be fought with confidence that victory will folow and that victory serves the interests of the American people. Sun Tzu emphasizes the benefits of spoils to motivate combatants (“when you capture spoils from the enemy, they must be used as rewards, so that all your men may have a keen desire to fight, each on his own account”). Weinberger emphasizes the public good of protecting vital national interests. For Sun Tzu, the interest soldiers have in the political objectives behind a fight or their concern for the common good is of no consequence in determining their motivation to wage war. That is why he emphasizes that soldiers fight, “each on his own account.” Sun Tzu’s attentiveness to private rewards and Weinberger’s concentration on the public good of protecting the national interest (however that may be understood) represent the great divide between small-coalition and large-coalition regimes. Our view of politics instructs us to anticipate that leaders who depend on lots of essential backers only fight when they believe victory is nearly certain. Otherwise, they look for ways to resolve their international differences peacefully. Leaders who rely only on a few essential supporters, in contrast, are prepared to fight even when the odds of winning are not particularly good. Democratic leaders try hard to win if the going gets tough. Autocrats make a good initial effort and if that proves wanting they quit.
He's not wrong, but I don't think pacifist is the word that should be used to describe the opposition to invading Greenland or Canada, or Panama.
If the right-wing media start inventing stories about Greenland, Canada and Panama being threats to the USA, I don't trust the US public to see through them. Many will, of course, but then many saw through the Iraq stuff too, just not enough.
I hear Greenland has WMDs - in the form of melting glaciers that will cause some kind of climate catastrophe. /s
The only solution is to preemptively nuke those glaciers so they can't melt on their own terms.
Genius. If you vaporize them they can't melt.
The magic of thermonuclear thermodynamics!
I wish Trump would shut TF up.
The worst part about him winning the election is that you can't escape his bullshit.
Foreign leaders need to stop responding as if a serious response will have any effect. They need to throw that shit back in his face. Tell him you'll accept, only if he discards the shithole states. Then list red states. Or tell him if he can find Greenland on the map, you'll consider it. Or direct the message at blue states and welcoming them if they decide to secede.
We wish to secede!!
I have had it with these muthafuckin calls for muthafuckin annexation
For national security reasons the world should build a wall around the US.
Trump also undermined Denmark's claim to Greenland, saying it was "very far away and really has nothing to do" with the island.
Well, except, you know ... the whole Nordic/Viking settlements thing?
Hell yeah!