I still don't see Mozilla as a bad actor, especially in comparison with the villany that is google and microsoft. It's still a great alternative for privacy newbies and average users, although I personally made the switch to librewolf (desktop) and iceraven (mobile) a while ago. Both being forks of firefox, development for actual firefox is essential for either of these to survive, so Mozilla still has my support albeit indirectly
Librewolf / IronFox for me, Mozilla can fuck right off with their cloud services, added value and hunger for telemetry. Their 2% userbase is about to shrink even further.
Mozilla’s only reason of existence right now is so that Google can skirt an antitrust case.
Edit: to be clear, that in itself makes it a bad actor.
This is probably a good opportunity to promote the Lemmy communitiy for LibreWolf: [email protected]
I've been using Firefox since it was Netscape, and I'm 'concerned' but not going anywhere yet.
Exactly the same situation here. I'll wait for a while and see what happens.
Yeah, same here... I'm cautiously worried, but more for other things that have happened than these last changes.
I'm mainly trying to work out how to get off windows.
Linux Mint. You'll get a thousand other recommendations which you can perhaps explore once you're more comfortable with Linux but for the easiest most Windows-like experience just get Mint.
You don't even need to ditch Windows completely, if you're uncomfortable with that, because you can dual boot meaning when you turn your PC on it asks would you like to open Windows or Linux
If you don't like it, well, at least you tried. I think you'll have a great time though exploring free software to do tasks you would have had to pay or subscribe to previously.
Take your time, ask questions on forums if you need to, and most importantly, enjoy it. Enjoy the experience of learning how computers actually work, enjoy personalising your machine to truly be your machine.
Good luck, and have fun!
Nice. I've been there, and changing just a bit at a time has added up to my computing now being in a state I'm much happier with.
Nope.
Not that I don't think it's a dumb move from Mozilla, but the options right now are:
Especially since I use Mozilla's services I'm sorta in their ecosystem right now. Maybe once I've moved passwords off I can consider moving, but even then on Android the only browser that supports uBlock is Firefox afaik, which makes it my YouTube client of choice.
100% recommend moving off firefox's password manager, as it's generally much more insecure than something like Bitwarden
I gotta set up something on my home server fr
Ideally, but bitwarden is a great in between solution, you can always export everything later to your self hosted solution of choice.
VaultWarden, selfhost bitwarden server
I've been using keepassxc for the last few years.
It's just an encrypted file you sync however you like. I use syncthing.
a password manager is better.
No, because I haven't used mainline Firefox in years.
I'm pretty happy with LibreWolf on desktop and IronFox (available on Accrescent btw!) on Android (GrapheneOS)
Unfortunately it's still much less secure than Chromium, but I want and need a proper adblocker to maintain my freedom online. And I'm definitely not using Brave...
The only kinda usable Chromium browsers are Ungoogled Chromium and Trivalent. I think I might try building Trivalent on macOS at some point. Maybe also gonna apply some patches from Thorium, as long as they don't compromise security.
Any thoughts on Vivaldi?
No thoughts on privacy, but I have been using Vivaldi for many years now and it's good. Pretty customizable if that's your thing.
Well it's proprietary and in my opinion extremely bloated.
I use Waterfox as my primary and Vivaldi as my secondary browser for when a site just really wants a Chromium based browser...it's great, Chrome minus Google, plus a few nice extras. For those old enough to remember when Opera was a popular alternative browser (before getting bought up and turned to garbage) -- Vivaldi is from the guy who made Opera.
Is there anything in the new ToS that's even bad? Like, there are lots of people breathlessly ranting about how privacy is dead because Mozilla mentioned the existence of third parties and gibberish like that, but when I read it myself it mostly seemed like they were just saying that if you use third party services through Firefox then the third parties will have your data. That seems kinda like a nothingburger of a controversy to me. I dunno, I'm not a lawyer, maybe I missed something, but if so I certainly haven't seen anybody else explain it properly.
They also recently removed the promise to never sell data: https://programming.dev/post/26136291
There's this comment (https://lemmy.zip/post/32886349/16923402) in this post (https://lemmy.zip/post/32886349?sort=Top) that should be interesting
You can't see it from Beehaw as beehaw defederated Lemmy.world
They removed a broadly worded promise that might theoretically be used to get them in trouble for selling anonymized data. I'm not happy about that, but it doesn't surprise me.
The rest is just people being angry at Mozilla for describing how a modern web browser works, because other companies have pointed at similar language to argue that they have the right to do whatever they want with any information they collect and no one has stopped them. That sucks, but the problem is that there are no consequences for large corporations, not that Mozilla is using the information you put into your browser to access the internet for you. Maybe Mozilla will also decide to intentionally misinterpret their own legalese to train some garbage AI, but the absolute worst case scenario is that they're the same as every other significant browser, and a more reasonable interpretation would be that the non-profit organization is probably not profit motivated and actually means the things they say.
Who knows. I can't see the future, but without Firefox forks of it are a dead-end, and any other browser is still going to collect a bunch of information and use it to navigate the web for you, because that's just how today's garbage javascript laden websites work. Yelling at Mozilla for explaining that in their ToS isn't going to fix it, and Ladybird isn't going to magically change how those websites work. If you really want to do something about it, don't use those websites. Good luck with that.
Maybe, but I'll stay on the non-Chromium end of things. I'll definitely try out some competitors, such as:
I still support engine diversity, but that doesn't have to be mainline Firefox.
That said, I don't think the TOS is as bad as people claim, so I'm in no rush.
I was trying out Mullvad Browser and clicked on a Discord link and it launched the Discord app on my computer.
I was shocked that a security-oriented browser would launch an external application without warning by default. Even Chrome prompts the user first.
Hmm, that is odd.
Librewolf. Mozilla will just keep enshittifying their browser. My biggest hope is that chrome is split off from Google and Mozilla loses their funding from google (500M/year). It's way more than they need and they refuse to actually compete with Chrome/Chromium. Instead, they are content being the excuse for Google not to be sued for being a monopoly.
Hopefully the charade will end before Trump leaves office. Either because the US courts force google to split or because the EU finally grows a pair and declares Google and their tech to be a liability. My bet is that a new browser like LadyBird will give Firefox a reason to actually improve, but it'll be too late.
After a quick look at librewolf I may absolutely join you
Yep. I've switched to Waterfox, but I need a browser for my phone(I run iOS, yes I know), any suggestions?
Probably Ironfox
It seems like that's Android only?
Yeah sorry, don't know about Iphones
Brave is unfortunately still the best browser on iOS when it comes to privacy. I absolutely despise of the company and especially their homophobic CEO, but there aren't better alternatives available right now.
Yes.
Short term -- I'll probably be moving to LibreWolf, most likely. I'm planning to spend a good chunk of time this weekend reviewing what exactly their fork does. I've read their self-description already -- and like it -- but I want to look through the code and try to build it myself before I start depending on it.
Long term -- I'll be keeping my eye on Servo and Ladybird.
No
No, if I read that correctly the terms do not apply to me as I don't use the "Executable Code version of Firefox".
Well, I have been using Zen, a Firefox fork for the past 6 months, and they have yet to clarify their stance on the ToS update.
Anyway, I don't think I'll change anyway, we need Gecko in the browser engine landscape and I have been so used to Firefox'S UI and flexibility that I have a hard time imagining myself not using a Firefox-based browser.
I'm staying on this side, but probably switching to a fork like Librewolf
I've previously used Floorp which is feature rich but not polished, and same goes for Zen
Not yet, they're still the best option that doesn't use Chromium (I don't count Safari), but Servo is looking pretty promising
I honestly have no clue, personally.
I know i have to jump ship, but my choices are either chromium, or a fork of firefox, that may be slow to catch up with security / may not last.
I've got my eyes on librewolf, floorp and zen.
I'm especially watching https://ladybird.org/. A completely independent browser. But the dev has gotten himself in hot water iirc, but anything to get away from google and mozilla, i guess. Also, it's not complete.
We'll see what the future has in stock for us.
What is forcing you? Why do you have to jump ship.
This is not an endorsement to use Firefox further but I am curious about your phrasing.
Mainly that i don't want my data being sent to mozilla. But I've decided to stick to firefox for a little more, but this action from mozilla has dropped my trust in them.
I think @[email protected] hasn't yet been enlightened by the fact that one can block Mozilla's URLs and IPs to escape it. TOS for software is dumb and made to be broken, don't let anyone argue with you otherwise.
I've decided to stick to firefox for some time, but i don't trust mozilla anymore.
They've been enshittifying for the past few years, and this is a huge tipping point for me.
I'll take your advice, thanks
Welcome! This is a community for all those who are interested in protecting their privacy.
PS: Don't be a smartass and try to game the system, we'll know if you're breaking the rules when we see it!
Some of these are only vaguely related, but great communities.