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How did China get their suicide rates so low compared to Japan and South Korea? (lemmygrad.ml)
submitted 3 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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(Obvious answer is socialism but I would like more specifics)

Often China, South Korea and Japan are treated as the "big three" of stress and expectations. Between their similar college entrance exams, demanding work schedules and environments, and social expectations for people to work hard and get rich and such.

But looking at suicide rates (which are only one piece of the puzzle of course) China places fairly low, at about 6.7 per 100,000 according to Wikipedia, half of Japan's and nearly a quarter of south korea's. Interestingly this is not just a cultural difference, as the Chinese province of Taiwan reports about 16 per 100,000 people, which is even higher than Japan. It also isn't the just case of a high density population compared to low density like Finland and Iceland, since Japan and the ROK fit this designation as well (as well as India, who has a rate even higher than Japan's)

The obvious answer is socialism, but that's a little broad and not how you actually solve things. Not to mention that cuba has a decently high rate too (although considering their current impoverishment it's not surprising). So what happened specifically? Poverty alleviation sure but that can't be all of it, I don't think so anyway.

(Additional notes and questions

A.The DPRK has a rate of 8, nearly a third of the ROK, suck it fake korea

B.Why is venezuala's rate so low? From the source Wikipedia uses its one of the lowest in the world, despite the generally high poverty and instability

C.Why is Afganistan's so low? Unsure if anyone has a concrete answer to this but I'm curious)

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[–] [email protected] 49 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I have spoken to actual chinese people about their working hours. 996 is a thing. That is where you work 9-9 6 days a week. BUT they also made it clear that its entirely possible to make a living in china not doing 996, and the people who do 996 CHOOSE to do it because they make a ton of money.

I would think that is one of the main differences. While yes they have a similar culture its entirely possible to not work much and still have a good life in china. It usually isnt optional in capitalist nations with that same culture.

I have personally contemplated suicide due to how much i was working before, and let me tell you from experience if i would have had an option to simply keep my basic needs, food, and housing, yeah i dont even include clothes or healthcare idc id have been naked and well rested. That is what i would have done. But when you are stuck working constantly, exhausted, hurting, and just barely making ends meet, and know that if you stop you'll go hungry... that is what makes people want to end it all. The idea of death felt like a chance to rest. For it to all just stop.

In China if you are struggling there are places you can go that are run by the government that will help you. Even if your entirely unable to support yourself at all they will help you. If you see a homeless person and call the police in China they'll come (quickly) and check on them. They will offer the homeless person a ride to the nearest place to get help. The person can refuse if they want, but typically will go with them. They provide housing by either checking if you have a home already and helping you get to it, or by giving you a basic place to stay. They get you food. They provide job training if you are able to work, and help you find work and get on your feet.

Personally i have broken down sobbing before because i was sure I'd be on the street imminently, and probably freeze to death. In China it wouldn't have even been something i had to worry about.

I'll end my rant with this. I saw a post on xiaohongshu where an american asked "In China can you make a living by just working at a grocery store as a cashier?" the chinese response was "If you couldn't live comfortably doing that job why would anyone do it?"

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 days ago

I find it funny how the Chinese use the same logical throughlines to come to different conclusions to liberals. Instead of saying that people shouldn't be able to live comfortably in every job, because then people would just do the easy Jobs, the Chinese say that people should be able to live comfortably in all jobs so that people will do them. I also saw one person on 小红书 using the "feed a man a fish" quote, not to argue for taking welfare away, but for actually giving people jobs.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 days ago (1 children)

But when you are stuck working constantly, exhausted, hurting, and just barely making ends meet, and know that if you stop you'll go hungry... that is what makes people want to end it all.

I feel this in my soul. My wife has had years of on and off illnesses and because the doctors cared more about getting beds turned over healing the root cause, it took her 10+ years to get her gallbladder removed. Because she was so sick going into it, it took way too long to recover and she's been struggling to get anyone to give her a new chance. All of this stacks up to a metric ton of mental health issues (she gets sick from stress some days) and more struggles. My son had been helping us keep afloat but he also just got canned recently. So my one income, which will barely cover rent and food, isn't going to be enough. If one or both of them doesn't land full time employment before the end of the month, we're going to default on basically everything. I'm only able to maintain my sanity by reminding myself that if I lose my mind, my wife will be absolutely inconsolable. If I could live somewhere that a basic job actually made for a good life, I'd move yesterday. Sadly, I don't have anything skills that would land me a job in China, so I have to just keep on keeping on for now.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Not sure if your in the US but i am gonna put some tips in that i use to make money stretch farther.

One huge one is cell service. Mint Mobile requires you to pay by year, i usually use my tax return to pay it, but you can get basic service for like 200$ per year. Unlimited call/text and 5gb data a month. Much cheaper than a typical provider.

Use the instacart app to find deals in stores then go to buy them in person. Instacart usually has the same deals as the stores altho some are app specific. Its a great way to see what deals are around. Dont order thru their app tho cuz its more expensive that way. Just use it to find sales.

In a pinch every adult can sell blood plasma once every 2 weeks (some places dont have the same times to wait. It varies). You can find clinics near you online. I dont reccomend doing it regularly youll get a scar, but if your desperate it could help make ends meet. Its like giving blood kind of, but they just take the plasma, and it takes longer.

Dont be afraid to hit up the food banks near you. Thats what its there for, and it can save you money on groceries.

Make sure there arent government services your not taking advantage of that you could be. Food stamps, Unemployment for your son, medicaid, etc.

Last thing i can think of right now is some easy cheap foods. I can usually find a big bag of russet potatoes for 5$ or so on sale, and its a ton of food for the price. Plus theyre healthy when cooked right. (Not fried) Rice of course is a good one, dried beans, one thats a bit more involved is a whole chicken. The meat itself is a decent price but the real value comes from using the drippings and bones to make broth after you roast it and remove the meat. You can use that broth to make soup with canned vegetables, or put it on rice to add flavor. Some things take time to make but if youve got people at home with time to do it it can save money.

Lastly for shopping it can be tempting to entirely avoid more expensive stores. Like Publix is one near me thats more expensive generally. Sometimes though the more expensive stores have BETTER sale prices. Theyll put something up as a loss leader for a crazy low price. If you go and just get those sale items and do your other shopping somewhere cheaper you can save on some stuff. Especially if its something more expensive those high end stores will put it half off and not care if they take a loss. Since they make it up elsewhere.

Hope some of this helps you to make things stretch a little bit more.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago

Thankfully, this happened just after a Costco run so we're not going to starve right away, I'm more worried about missing payments on bills in a couple of months when the little bit we'd squirreled away runs out. If things go well and one or both of them can get back to work before the end of the month/early March, we shouldn't be too bad, but I will definitely look at some of those. We're on an NVMO provider already, so our bill is less expensive than the big 3 at least. It's just overwhelming to think about and I'm just trying to keep myself sane.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The literal answer is socialism. Stress for demands from school, work, etc are massively minimized when you know you will be safe if something happens. When you have people and community that wants your success as a person. That's the kind of thing China works towards. Japan and SK have similarly stressful school expectations and stuff but the capitalist society isolates them. Imagine the stress of losing your job in a society where you have safety nets to helps you recover, vs one where it means your life may be over? Same with school. Schools in China may be competitive but they actively want people to succeed and provide for your needs for schooling much more than the other two. Where school is also a competition but there is no real active push by your community to help you succeed. If you fall behind it's more ridicule than wanting to help you.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 days ago (1 children)

the gaokao competitiveness for top schooling actually is inverted (monetarily speaking) compared to the west. The top schools are usually publicly funded and have lower tuitions compared to private schools. (that said gaokao is very intense, I had a cousin who spent a whole year to redo it to try to get better placement)

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 days ago (2 children)

So is the quality of the schooling different? Do public schools have better education overall? Is it so competitive because of the cheaper cost and better funding? Trying to understand how it all works. Kind of sounds like it's pressuring lower income students to have to prove themselves to get the cheaper (cost wise) schooling whereas the more wealthy can pay their way through the private schooling sector. And that sounds like the west only instead of fighting to get a grant into a high end private school they are fighting to get into a cheaper costing public school. Which in the end, both cases sound like it's about paying less for an education.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I can't speak for China, but in India we have a similar system where those who do well on exams gain admission into top public schools and those who don't have to settle for a private school which isn't as selective but more expensive. As far as I know the private schools are really just backup plans for those who can afford it and aren't very prestigious compared to the public schools.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Similar in Poland. At elementary and middle education level private is massively expensive but also usually better though that is mostly because constant cuts to public education means that regardless of failing birthrates there is always too much kids in class and too much duties for teachers. At those levels there are no pressure about it though, nobody is even asking which school you finished. But at university level state universities are free and much better while having much more competition while private schools are usually much worse.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

1/ unsure for every case

2/ don't have enough data but just stating the trend: the top ranked schools are all public, just check out the rankings, tip top ones are all public nonprofit.

3/ I'm not super familiar with the entire landscape to know if all public schools are strictly better or not; I'm just aware of general public opinion that private schools are more expensive and more mid. Generally, less prestigious. However, at least as a personal observation, wealthier parents tend to choose to find a way for their kid to go to an overseas university if they don't like the private schooling options after midling gaokao results. (as american born chinese these wealthy "princess complex" international classmates colored my impression of mainlanders for a while during my uni years... i suppose that's both to my own and their detriment :/ it is what it is)

iirc rural area hukou students and ethnic minority students get boosted points for gaokao also, there's definitely affirmative action in that regard.

edit: clarity

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 days ago

I have no empirical evidence to back this up, but the answer probably lies in the fact that socialist development consciously attempts to preserve social cohesion and promote pro-social behavior. In concrete terms, it’s generally easier to find community in socialist countries than in capitalist ones.