Apologies to whoever originally posted this I downloaded it earlier today
this post was submitted on 25 Jan 2025
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Luigi Mangione made an odd-looking gesture towards a CEO.
It is a fun activity to think of legal standards here. Of course we don't know what he was thinking for sure, and we never will, just like everyone else in the world every day of our lives. But we can and do judge people by their actions... In other words, where do people want to put this Nazi salute? What is their certainty about his action? Below are the legal standards.
- Reasonable suspicion
- Probable cause
- Preponderance of evidence (more likely than not)
- Clear and convincing
- Proof beyond a reasonable doubt
Where would you rank the Nazi salute conclusion? I think proof beyond reasonable doubt, and perhaps we could reasonably debate claims that it's a level or two weaker than that. But the deniers, they want to say there's not even reasonable suspicion, and that is a sad joke.
I’m pretty sure what you mentioned are principles used in courts of law. As a rule, journalists can and should call a spade a spade. They don’t need to prove beyond reasonable doubt what he was thinking.
Yes, the whole point was to bring up legal examples, to show the absurdity of trying to read Musk's mind here when we don't even do that for murder trials.
If it was something that came out of the blue, I might be more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt, but the man follows, regularly retweets and converses with actual (as in, they call themselves that) Nazis on Twitter.
It just shows that the mainstream media (and the ADL) aren't really interested in the truth.
It was a Nazi salute without a doubt. The only question is if it was accidental or intentional. Musk being a far-right operative and making a bunch of Nazi puns as his response instead of an apology for the misunderstanding makes it clear it was not an accident.
Yeah, I think I wholeheartedly agree with the Die Zeit journalist. If a right-wing person does a Hitler salute in front of a right wing audience... It's probably a Hitler salute... Context matters and it's not like Musk usually shares left-wing perspective on his platform. We know for a fact whom and what he sympathizes with...
I don’t disagree with your point but at least half of America isn’t reading any of those sources and instead live on major tv network and they’re the ones talking about the ‘gesture’
The thing that my stomach drop is the crowd cheered. Not a shocked intake of breath or booing. They cheered. He did a sieg heil and they cheered it. If you cheer a Nazi doing Nazi things, you're also a Nazi. The US has a Nazi infestation. Even if they get another remotely fair election to correct this, it won't be accepted, again, and insurrection2 will have been prepared for, for 5 years. I feel that sieg heil of the richest person on earth marked the end of American democracy.
Republicans will never accept another election if a Democrat wins. This is our future, where every election they lose is contested. That is, if we have another election. I think we're heading to a pseudo democracy like Russia, where they can vote but Putin always wins in a landslide.
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I spent the larger part of the day trying to convince my sister. I don’t think it worked and now I’m just depressed about it.
The best argument I've heard so far is "If it's not a Nazi salute, do it at work tomorrow."
I tried that, got promoted to Chief of Police. I didn't even work in Law Enforcement
And if its "just a hand gesture, try giving a cop the finger"
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Have you shown her the side-by-side GIF of him doing the same move as the H-man? There's another one where it shows him doing it exactly like a group of neo-nazis on a street demonstration. Mirror image.
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Because the Nazis own them
Most major corporations are owned or operated by sociopathic oligarchs who would prefer to implement a fascist dictatorship, and be a part of the state capitalist monopoly, than have to pay higher taxes or deal with regulations.
This is what happens when society rewards psychopathy/narcissism with wealth and power.
"BuT cApItAlIsM pRoMoTeS mErItOcRaCy!!"
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Because US corporate media is owned by fellow fascists.
Next?
Because he's rich. And a celebrity. Americans love them their rich celebrities.
And more importantly, rich celebrities will sue you for defamation even if you’re right. That can cost a lot of money to defend against.
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The corporate press is now just a pro-kleptocracy propaganda outlet. Representing the views of an oligarchy isn't exactly "mainstream" so we should stop calling it that.
I've seen people here on Lemmy, people I don't think are just trolling, that are finding convoluted reasons to excuse it as not a Nazi salute. And I am so fucking tired of it. Listen to virtually everything he has ever said on the subject of race and gender and sexual orientation and other such things. Maybe if he didn't have a really long history of being a racist, maybe if he didn't support the Germany's modern Nazi party, maybe if he isn't trying to get an unapologetic Nazi out of prison in the UK, I would consider that he accidentally did a Nazi salute (twice). But that's not the reality.
"Oh sure, he's a bigot that loves Nazis, but that wasn't a Nazi salute" is some real fucking bullshit.
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Because they’re cowards and have been for quite some time.
because a huge part of fascism is the merging of corporations with the government.
the corporate media is covering for nazis for the same reason the leader enshittificator Alphabet, the otherwise twitter's direct competitor Evil Corp, and of course the slavery warehouse Amazon were all represented with their figureheads Sunil Bakshi, the T-600, and Lex Luthor alongside that Troglodyte Phony Stark. they're merging.
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Lemmy should maintain a list of competent and incompetent news sources. In lots of places.
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They're all hoping to become maga state run media.
Also, they have no problem with Nazis.
This isn't complicated. Hardly worth the time it took to post. 🙄
They worked very hard to get the Nazis elected. That's why.
$$$
because they're complicit
Because they are also Nazis, they're just not ready to go mask-off yet.
Because they are saluting right back at him.
For the same reason you never see Bruce Wayne with Batman
"Corporate Media"
Where's the confusion?
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