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[–] 81 points 3 years ago (58 children)

15 billion to private companies to retool and whatever. But then they sell us what they make. None of that goes back to the tax payers.

If you work for someone else in this country you are a joke it seems.

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  • [–] 14 points 3 years ago (15 children)

    Stopping climate change benefits everyone, including the taxpayers.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 years ago* (8 children)

    This isn't going to put a dent in climate change. It just isn't. Wake me up when we change our stance on Nuclear since that is the only thing that will bolster renewable energy, which is a stop gap.

    Furthermore, if the US government actually cared about fighting climate change they would invest in public transportation across the country, making those EV, since they A. Go shorter distances and B. Can carry more people, and they would also tax the shit out of the fossil fuel industry and manufacturing sector for their wonton pollution. It's called internalizing the externalities and it needed to happen 10 years ago. We're so fucked.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 years ago* (3 children)

    Stopping climate change by...

    Removing fossil fuels from the grid? Reducing methane leakage in natural gas transmission? Developing domestic nuclear energy?

    Maybe reducing car-dependency to make more efficient use of land and reduce the excessive amounts of taxpayer money being dumped to subsidize suburban development? Reducing inefficient flights between close cities (LAX-SFO, BOS-JFK-DCA)? Building more efficient buildings?

    How about taking advantage of the already insanely efficient supply chains in China that allow for the development of sub-10k EVs? Helping those companies launch in the US and bring their expertise with them to accelerate the EV transition like China has?

    Nah, let's just give some more money to a few big EV manufacturers, I'm sure that'll fix everything.

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    [–] 63 points 3 years ago* (5 children)

    We will always give money to our industries to make up for the lack of long term planning in our system. I certainly do not understand what concept of fucking justice that is related to.

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  • [–] 27 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    I certainly do not understand what concept of fucking justice that is related to.

    This concept of justice:

    higher scores will be given to projects that are likely to retain collective bargaining agreements and/or those that have an existing high-quality, high-wage hourly production workforce, such as applicants that currently pay top quartile wages in their industry.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    And that's good. But what would be better for the planet would be building up a public transportation system so robust that cars are unnecessary outside of rural areas.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 years ago*

    I was just listening to a Parenti lecture where he talked about an interaction he had with someone who had been in high up in East Germany. He basically asked, “why did you put out those crappy little two cylinder engine cars?” And the ex-officials response was essentially, “we didn’t want to put them into cars at all, we thought if we provided an adequate public transportation system, that people would be satisfied, but they weren’t so we had to do what we could.”

    I agree with you fully, that public transport would be the ideal solution, far and away above electric vehicles, which just providing one for every household in the US would require such s massive amount of material extraction that it by itself will cause significant climate outcomes, but, we must find a way around the impulse for private personal transportation that exists within people, and I don’t know how to do so. Moving without the mass of people could lead to rejection and reactionary movements. Moving with the mass will lead to climate destruction. How do we work with the masses to come to a compromise that allows the support of the masses, while reducing the number of private vehicles to nearly zero?

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    [–] 25 points 3 years ago (21 children)

    I was hoping for a cash for clunkers 2.0

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  • [+] 13 points 3 years ago (7 children)
  • [–] 26 points 3 years ago (6 children)

    oh no, won't someone think of the... checks notes... classic car enthusiasts?

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  • [+] 13 points 3 years ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (5 children)
  • [–] 4 points 3 years ago*

    I get it, but old cars are also much less efficient even than modern ICE cars, so if the goal is to facilitate a transition into EVs and hybrids it might make some sense. The obvious issue with that is that there is also an environmental cost to making new cars to replace all the old cars, and I personally don't know how that pencils out compared to keeping people in older, inefficient cars, even if they have a pretty limited lifespan anyway....

    I guess I'm kind of torn on it. Personally I'd love to move away form my 2014 BMW which makes about 18mpg on average.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 years ago (3 children)

    First the charging infrastructure needs to be better

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  • [–] 7 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    It’s well on its way. And most people charge at home day to day.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 years ago

    That’s a great way to do it, but that solution excludes a lot of people renting or in condo HOAs that don’t have easy access to overnight charge points in their complex’s or city’s lots. Hopefully those missing pieces are addressed soon so EVs feel like an option to everyone driving an ICE car, not just homeowners with garages.

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  • [–] 17 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    "Strong and just"? You're not going to win over fascists by using their keywords. Maybe tone it down a little for those of us who still recall "Operation Shock and Awe" and the "War on drugs" and "The PATRIOT Act" and all the associated "collateral damage".

    It just makes me think there's something hidden in there of which we should all be very suspicious, even if there might not be.

    Note: I welcome less environmental damage and reskilling workers into sustainable energy industries and products. I hope this bill isn't the result of industry lobbying by EV manufacturers, but I note the lack of environmental goals contrasts with the large amounts of money being put into industry grants and loans.

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