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[–] 81 points 3 years ago (58 children)

15 billion to private companies to retool and whatever. But then they sell us what they make. None of that goes back to the tax payers.

If you work for someone else in this country you are a joke it seems.

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  • [–] 22 points 3 years ago (7 children)

    While I agree with your sentiment, ~2/3rds of it according to the article isn't being given to them but being available in loans. So the article should say $5.5 given away, and $10 billion made avaliable to pay back.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago (6 children)

    Loans are costs too. It's tying up capital that could be used elsewhere

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  • [–] 6 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    It's more like investment, especially if it saves jobs. It can be a win-win. Companies have it easier time switching to EV manufacturing, which helps those companies and the environment. Manufacturing jobs are saved, both giving a living to a lot of people and helping communities and saving on benefit payments.

    Could of course backfire or go to shit but investments like this from states seem like a very wise move imo.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    Take loan

    Spend it on stock buybacks

    Buy a senator or 50

    Profit

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago

    I wouldn't exactly be surprised if that happens but I'm not pessimistic enough to think it will hah. I'd imagine plenty of them will actually use the money for EV transition since that really is the direction things are going anyway.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    It’s tying up capital that could be used elsewhere

    I'm not sure that's the case when you're the government and can and do print money. Not every rule of finance applies to the entity that gives credibility to the currency in the first place. This is also why the concept of governmental debt is much less meaningful than the concept of individual debt.

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  • [–] 14 points 3 years ago (15 children)

    Stopping climate change benefits everyone, including the taxpayers.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 years ago* (8 children)

    This isn't going to put a dent in climate change. It just isn't. Wake me up when we change our stance on Nuclear since that is the only thing that will bolster renewable energy, which is a stop gap.

    Furthermore, if the US government actually cared about fighting climate change they would invest in public transportation across the country, making those EV, since they A. Go shorter distances and B. Can carry more people, and they would also tax the shit out of the fossil fuel industry and manufacturing sector for their wonton pollution. It's called internalizing the externalities and it needed to happen 10 years ago. We're so fucked.

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  • [+] 8 points 3 years ago (6 children)
  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (5 children)

    EV cars are meant to be powered with green energy, but you need a demand and a supply of that first or you're just powering them with coal instead of oil.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago* (4 children)

    Common myth. Coal makes up a small percentage of power in the US and Europe, and EVs powered by literally anything other than coal (including natural gas) are a net win for the climate over ICE vehicles.

    For example, where I live, coal is 3% of the energy mix. Renewables (including hydro) are 42%, and nuclear is 9%.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago* (2 children)

    38% natural gas and the rest "unspecified", probably smaller energy generation projects that don't fit neatly into other categories.

    Edit: did some more research and "unspecified" means power imported from other states that didn't document the source of the power.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

    You realize natural gas is a major contributor to the greenhouse effect, right? When people talk about going to green energy, only the fossil fuel industries pretend gas, or for that matter "clean coal," is part of it.

    And sure, it contributes less per kilowatt but the current concerns are that we're either already over the threshold or won't convert in time.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago

    Cool, but that's a whole separate conversation.

    An EV powered by 100% natural gas is still a lot better for the climate than an ICE vehicle.

    And note that natural gas is a decreasing amount of the energy mix.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 years ago* (3 children)

    Stopping climate change by...

    Removing fossil fuels from the grid? Reducing methane leakage in natural gas transmission? Developing domestic nuclear energy?

    Maybe reducing car-dependency to make more efficient use of land and reduce the excessive amounts of taxpayer money being dumped to subsidize suburban development? Reducing inefficient flights between close cities (LAX-SFO, BOS-JFK-DCA)? Building more efficient buildings?

    How about taking advantage of the already insanely efficient supply chains in China that allow for the development of sub-10k EVs? Helping those companies launch in the US and bring their expertise with them to accelerate the EV transition like China has?

    Nah, let's just give some more money to a few big EV manufacturers, I'm sure that'll fix everything.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    More than one thing can happen at the same time.

    I'm sorry for shattering your world-view like this.

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