yeah, but...
this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2023
331 points (98.5% liked)
Climate - truthful information about climate, related activism and politics.
5212 readers
1060 users here now
Discussion of climate, how it is changing, activism around that, the politics, and the energy systems change we need in order to stabilize things.
As a starting point, the burning of fossil fuels, and to a lesser extent deforestation and release of methane are responsible for the warming in recent decades:
How much each change to the atmosphere has warmed the world:
Recommended actions to cut greenhouse gas emissions in the near future:
Anti-science, inactivism, and unsupported conspiracy theories are not ok here.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Might be a hot take, but I for one think we should be far more extremist in our climate fight against corporations.
Just yesterday I was thinking about how I can't open my window for the weekend because of the smoke in the air. This thought process is fucking insane when you step back and think about it, but yet it's becoming our daily lives. No window day today -> no outside day -> oh we only go out at night now etc. Progression is slow so we get used to the hindrances we have to live with.
My main point: if you’re going to go after ‘climate extremists’, make sure it’s the ones who don’t care about your children’s future, not the ones trying to do something about it.
Agreed. It's an important thing to remember.
I'm fine with eco-terrorists when they target fossile stuff. I'm very much not fine when they target nuclear, public electricity companies, or even GMO research.
I get it, but ... all anyone accomplishes by barricading a road to protest oil is pissing off people trying to get to work so they have a roof over their heads and don't starve. They're not going to think, Oh! Well! I'd better change my ways! I'll just spend this tens of thousands of dollars I don't have lying around on an EV (which won't solve climate change anyway), take the fuck-all existent public transit (in North America), or walk 20 miles to work every day!
They're as much victims to the system you are.
people trying to get to work
yes! The point of protest is to inconvenience the owning class, which this achieves, well recognised!
I mean you could take the bike just those few days, plenty of people do it all year round for 20 miles.
In all seriousness, I can't see how that's realistic in anything but ideal climate if you need to maintain a professional appearance. Either you get to work as a blob of sweat and stank because it's hot outside, or you get to work as a blob of sweat and stank because it's cold as fucking balls and you need to have twenty layers of clothes so the outside doesn't literally kill you in 30 seconds.
A lot of offices have showers for that reason. Personally I'd have an extra set of clothing and wash up at the sink and there were others doing it too. And it's just for a few days, it's not the end of the world.
Could also fix our infrastructure and invest in public transport. I'm not entirely fuck cars, but I'd definitely like to see a role reversal between public transport and personal vehicles in the US. Real investment in trains in America would be a game changer.
As far as I understand it the issue in the US regarding trains is because of the history. The rails are owned by freight companies and freight trains are prioritized. Whereas in say Germany the passenger trains are prioritized. In the Netherlands subsidies are cut if trains are late more than 5% of the time IIRC.
So ya how can you possibly make it reliable in the US this way?
Further I also understand that in the US there is very clear zoning, such as residential, commercial and so on, whereas here residential and commercial can be mixed, so on the ground floor you typically have shops and the like.
Fair enough, I guess that would work.
I understand your frustration though. In Berlin an ambulance got stuck and the patient died. Nobody wanted that and it remains a complex issue.
For a lot of people in the US, the only way to work is by freeway/highway. Biking that is not an option.
In the same places, public transit is often terrible/nonexistent/actually dangerous as well.
It's really an infrastructure problem, but getting people to invest more in public infrastructure is extremely difficult, and that's ignoring the extremely inefficient spending at the government level.
It's also a chicken and egg problem. If nobody uses it there will also be no money or interest for improving it. It seems like a complex issue in the US.
However I feel that I must add that I'm from the country side in the Netherlands, and while there is public transport here, it is almost exclusively used by students, guest workers, and asylum seekers. So even though it is available, people still prefer the convenience of their own car. I also know people who are too lazy to cycle even just 10km, and they prefer to park right in front of the store. My point is just that even when it's there, and it's high quality and affordable, people still tend to avoid it purely for convenience or out of laziness.
In fact there used to be a train here over a hundred years ago, but it was removed. It seems a new one will be built soon as there is political will again from the greens.
Having visited the Netherlands, I have to say it's an incredibly beautiful country with amazing public transportation and some of the friendliest people I've met. I wish we could be more like that. Instead, I often find myself avoid public transportation because of how much slower it is (easily an extra hour of transportation), the fact it just doesn't usually go to where I need to go, and the risks associated with it (stabbings, stealing, etc) :(
It never ceases to amaze me how different the US is from western Europe. Especially how dangerous some places seem to be. Why would someone stab you on a bus for example?
I have to say you guys have amazing nature and I'd love to go hiking there some time.
if they got out of the car and sat on the road too it would be over in one day