Pathfinder 2e General Discussion

Yeah. In my experience (as a GM with a summoner player, going through Strength of Thousands, currently at level 12), Summoners spend the majority of their time in combat acting as a 'fighter', with the summoner spending their 'at least 1 of the 4 actions' casting Boost Eidolon. Which, on that front, makes them a 'worse fighter'.

But, of course, they can throw out big spells when needed, since while they only have 4 spell slots, they don't lag behind a full caster at all in 'highest level spellslot' (aside from 10th level spells). They get fireball at the same time the Wizard does. So the real 'breaking point' between them an a full caster isn't 'burst power', but being able to lay out a constant barrage of lower level spells, meaning they lose out a lot on utility.

But, staffs on them are very important, as that is huge in giving them those 'lower level utility spells'.

And, unlike a fighter, they do have access to damage cantrips, for both when ranged combat is needed, and if elemental damage is needed. Sure, those damage cantrips are worse DPS in a white-room scenario most of the time, but they are nice to have when needed.

So while they are spending 90% of their time in combat mostly being a 'worse fighter', 10% of the time they're throwing out spells as strong as a Wizard, and just generally bringing less DPS but more flexibility than a fighter would. In that regard, they're maybe more analogous to an Inventor.

Which, on the proficiency front, the Eidolon shares martial proficiency progression with most martials, so they'll lag behind fighter and gunslinger on attacks, and monks/champions on defense, but keep pace with rangers and rogues and swashbucklers etc.

Summoners as a caster though lag behind full casters a bit, getting expert and master spellcasting 2 level later (so, more levels than not, they'll actually have the same proficiency as a full caster). More painful though is they never get Legendary casting, since full casters get that at level 19. While I've not yet seen summoners at that level, having your DC/spell attack be 2 lower is painful, but able to be mitigated by focusing more on 'party buffs'.

Whoops, I think it's actually used to describe Warlocks in 5e, but it's casters that lose their lower level spell slots as they gain higher ones. So far, only Magus and Summoner do this.

They're how spellcasters get over the fact that they only have 2-4 spells per level and maybe 5 encounters per day. Each scroll is a consumable spell slot that you can use so long as you've got basic spellcasting ability, even if thats just cantrips and the trained proficiency in one tradition.

Unlike in PF1e and D&D, scrolls actually use your spellcasting DC, which makes them viable in combat against enemies you'll face in your adventures.

The lowest level ones are crazy cheap and can be applied to a wide variety of situations, so it makes sense to stock up on loads of them. When your budget for consumables is 500, why not buy a hundred lv 1 scrolls? fear, gust of wind, command, illusory object, etc. etc. can easily become as "at-will" as your cantrips.

Not sure if that's including or excluding the action total since you only get 4 to split for 2 character (instead of 6 between 2 actual characters). Like, if your eidolon was a full fighter and your summoner a full sorcerer, you'd already "roughly" be worth 2/3 of each of them from action economy alone (modulo the fact that the last action is a bit weaker than the first one). I'd probably put them between 1/3 and 2/3 but definitely closer to 1/2 when considering the action economy

Oh yeah, my bad, I meant as in, if you have an Eidolon like plant focusing on Athletic maneuvers, you'll have to get an athletic item for them (that you equip yourself) or the maneuvers won't do you much good and if you want to have a bon mot/demoralize build on the summoner, you'll need that intimidation/diplomacy item as well, in the end. Technically you could just not focus on too many skills at the same time, but summoner is very conductive for it, if it wasn't for the item cost

Probably fully?