this post was submitted on 03 Jun 2024
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If I recall correctly the maximum Noise Reduction Rating (NRR) for earplugs and earmuffs is around 30db. You can combine the two for a slight increase in hearing protection but you still hit a limit because of bone vibration.

Is there PPE out there to go even further beyond this? Where would it be commonly used?

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[–] [email protected] 68 points 5 months ago

I was actually wondering about this recently and I started thinking about how loud of sounds people working on the deck of an aircraft carrier would be exposed to. I found this interesting article about improving the hearing protection for them, because it turns out even for people who actually use both forms like they are supposed to (most of the people in the jobs exposed to the loudest sounds do, it would likely still be at the pain level for them if they only wore one so they have good motivation) it still isn’t enough for a full workday of exposure.

Here’s the link: https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA455113.pdf. The exposure is something like 145-155 dB. They say a final checker will get to the safe limit in only a few takeoffs, and that assumes that they can recover in a below 84 dB environment when they aren’t working, which apparently also doesn’t happen. It seems like it isn’t really a solved problem of how to protect people being exposed to this kind of sound level.

[–] [email protected] 60 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Couple years ago, I visited a historic grand prix that featured classic F1 cars. They also had open pits, so you could walk up and ask questions and literally stand next to the cars.

I was standing next to a 70’s F1 car when they performed an engine test. I was wearing thick, professional earplugs and the biggest Peltors you’ve ever seen. When they fired that thing up, I lasted all of five seconds before I walked out. At that point, it was no longer sound but sheer pressure. You could feel it in your chest.

As for how the mechanics do it? Easy, they’re all deaf as a post. Even the best earpro can’t prevent that kind of hearing damage, especially if that’s your chosen career. If you’re worried about good earpro not being enough, best advice is to put distance between you and the object/career path involved.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago

When I was in the Army they put us in a room with a jet engine bolted to a concrete block, and the exhaust routed outside of the building. They fired that thing up and it was overwhelming. My hearing is fucked up today, and I sometimes wonder how much of the damage was due to that demonstration. Standing near a fucking Howitzer without ear plugs when it was fired off probably didn't help much either.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

At that point, it was no longer sound but sheer pressure. You could feel it in your chest.

I wonder if there would be a way to counter that though. Maybe some kind of sound-focused bomb suit developed for a single profession?

I imagine most situations are avoidable with modern technology allowing us to do things remotely but perhaps there was something used historically or as part of a "because I can" experiment.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago

Space-suits must operate this way, if inadvertently..

The number of decibels at the rocket-nozzles is waaay higher than what it would be "at the top of the candle", but .. there's pretty-much nothing in Nature as loud as those things are, except meteorites, maybe some volcanoes, being inside of lightning, etc..

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I visited a top fuel dragster event once. It was insane to feel the pressure in my chest despite being a good 50-100m away from the cars.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 5 months ago (3 children)

There was that Nathan For You episode where they locked that kid in a coffin and had an orgy outside to test the sound proofing. No real practical use but apparently it did a good job.

All jokes aside, I'm very interested to hear if something exists to that degree of practical hearing protection. Maybe a "suit"of sorts to cancel noise and dampen bone conduction or super active noise cancelling?

[–] [email protected] 26 points 5 months ago

...they locked that kid in a coffin and had an orgy outside....

You just named a practical use.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago

All jokes aside, I'm very interested to hear

I see you..

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

You'd need the suit to allow you to "float" inside or it. Air gapped, and rubber suspension? Maybe some kind of a liquid, but it would probably just allow for more transference?

[–] [email protected] 20 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

I did some research about this for myself, the best I could find is an advertised -45dB (Remote Audio HN-7506), which makes me very skeptical, I couldn't find any third party measurements but multiple reviews I read mention that they have about the same isolation as Etymotic earphones.

Active noise canceling is good but only for lower frequencies, it does almost nothing to mid and high frequencies, which is not necessarily a bad thing since mid and higher frequencies are easier to attenuate passively.

The best noise canceling headphones have an average noise cancellation of -27dB (-20dB in the bass frequencies), but the best noise cancellation that I could find (other than the HN-7506 that I don't really trust) is from Etymotic earphones, they are completely passive and have an average attenuation of -32dB with -21dB reduction in the bass frequencies which is really impressive, they work so well because they are inserted much deeper in the ear which can be a bit uncomfortable. I read a lot of experiences from musicians and apparently if you use foam tips instead of the stock ones you can get even better isolation and slightly better comfort.

Another option is custom molded IEMs or earplugs, I couldn't find measurements for those but based on comments from people that have them they seem to have slightly less isolation that Etymotic earphones but they're are obviously infinitely more comfortable since they're custom molded to your ears (there are also soft wraps that increase isolation but I don't know how effective they are).

So if you want the best noise cancellation I recommend the Etymotic ER4XR or the Etymotic ER2XR (afaik most Etymotic earphones have the same body (so same isolation), choose them based on the sound signature you prefer), if you want good balance between noise cancellation and comfort get custom molded earplugs or IEMs.

My sources:

Headphones with best ANC measurements, Etymotic measurements (click on Isolation on the sidebar)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Active noise canceling is good but only for lower frequencies,

Can you define lower here?

In my experience, they're most effective for higher frequencies (voices and higher), as lower frequencies are hard to attentuate (why we can hear/feel subwoofers from cars a fair distance away).

For example, a couple pairs I have are ineffective against the bass from the gym idiots running the aerobics room (wtf does it have to be loud outside the room - those women must be getting hearing damage), but it's great for all the people talking, and some of the tvs.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I don't know the exact frequencies but it's something I read and noticed myself, and wikipedia seems to agree.

Active noise cancelling is best suited for low frequencies. For higher frequencies, the spacing requirements for free space and zone of silence techniques become prohibitive.

(Don't know what that means.)

Personally I used the Sony XM3 a lot, on planes etc. which have great ANC, and I also used the Moondrop Blessing 3 which are just normal IEMs with no ANC and I only notice a difference in the low frequencies, you can also see that in the rtings measurements (XM3, Blessing 3), isolation in mids and treble is about the same, they seem to consider anything under around 250Hz as bass.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

Yea, that "low frequencies" is rather ambiguous.

I could see over-the-ear headphones being better at "lower" frequencies than in-ear, both from material absorption and speaker size. Every ANC pair I've had, of any style, was pretty good at nearly eliminating the higher frequency noise while flying (engines, airflow noise, etc), and almost eliminated voices.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago
[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (6 children)

I think we need to define “hearing protection”, and how far your willing to go

For example this is probably less than practical.

It should be noted that active noise canceling doesn’t actually protect your ears. It’s just pumping more noise into them (noise that happened to be exactly opposite in phase, but the pressure is still there.)

[–] [email protected] 25 points 5 months ago (5 children)

Wouldn't out of phase noise also cancel the pressure? The amplitudes combine to zero.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago
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[–] [email protected] 21 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Active noise cancelling does reduce the actual sound pressure (that’s the only way volume can be reduced). See for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_protection_device#Electronic_hearing_protection_devices.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Hmm, I was under the understanding that it actually cancels out the pressure by creating a wave exactly 90 degrees off from the initial wave, creating reverse pressure and canceling the sound….

Not sure?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

It pumps noise at other noise. All that noise literally cancels out. There's literally no sound.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (3 children)

active noise canceling doesn’t actually protect your ears

I doubt that, mate.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

The thing is that it needs to be literally perfect polarization flipping to protect you. ANC as we know isn't perfect; it doesn't perfectly cancel sound and create absolute silence. You're still potentially vulnerable to high SPL

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Your example made me wonder how effective coating yourself in sound padding tiles to the point you resemble a lychee fruit would be.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

I don't exactly know whether this strat is redundant or not but I wear noise cancelling earbuds with full earmuffs overtop and it seems to do a good job. Plus i get the added benefit of being able to listen to music and hear phonecalls while on a machine.

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