this post was submitted on 09 May 2024

20 points (75.0% liked)

Linux

8090 readers

4 users here now

Welcome to c/linux!

Welcome to our thriving Linux community! Whether you're a seasoned Linux enthusiast or just starting your journey, we're excited to have you here. Explore, learn, and collaborate with like-minded individuals who share a passion for open-source software and the endless possibilities it offers. Together, let's dive into the world of Linux and embrace the power of freedom, customization, and innovation. Enjoy your stay and feel free to join the vibrant discussions that await you!

Rules:

Stay on topic: Posts and discussions should be related to Linux, open source software, and related technologies.
Be respectful: Treat fellow community members with respect and courtesy.
Quality over quantity: Share informative and thought-provoking content.
No spam or self-promotion: Avoid excessive self-promotion or spamming.
No NSFW adult content
Follow general lemmy guidelines.

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

Are we (linux) ready for Arm devices? (lemy.lol)

submitted 6 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

21 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Are we (linux) ready for arm devices like snapdragon elite X? Asahi runs on mac os with arm chips and the software somehow runs better than macos itself?! Is the softwares packaged for arm linux different? Is there much softwares available for the arm platform like softwares available for the intel/amd chipsets?

After all are you optimistic about linux and arm?

top 21 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] [email protected] 44 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Linux has been ready for ARM for a long time, Android is linux and have been running for a long time. Also see the Raspberry Pi and PiOS, based on Debian.

I run a Pi and there are boat loads of things ARM ready

[+] [email protected] -22 points 6 months ago (4 children)

Android is not linux ootb But pi is Thanks i didn't thought about it ( ꈍᴗꈍ)

[–] [email protected] 23 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Android runs on the Linux kernel, so it's Linux. You could consider it a distribution with almost none of the normal packages a standard Linux distribution would include, but it's still Linux at the core.

[+] [email protected] -12 points 6 months ago (3 children)

It's been sufficiently transformed that the creator of the first half of GNU/Linux doesn't think it's Linux and I find his arguments convincing. Just like Linux isn't in the Unix family Android is something different. Further reading: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/sep/19/android-free-software-stallman

[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

It may not be "GNU/Linux" (whatever that stupid name means) but it's still Linux. If it uses the Linux kernel, then it's Linux, simple as. No one said it has to be *nix to be considered Linux. And even then Android is *nix. You can actually run many Linux programs if you have root access or by using Termux. If Android isn't Linux to you, Alpine Linux shouldn't be either.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Beyond the article being ancient at this point (in terms of AOSP and Android development lifetime), Stallman's argument boils down to the same talking points of Free Software purism.

To the first real point being transformed here: Android is not GNU/Linux because it does not contain much of the GNU Project's software. While it's correct to claim it's not GNU/Linux, how does it not make it Linux still? Is Alpine Linux not considered "Linux" because it doesn't contain GNU? Please elaborate on this point of Linux being Linux because it has GNU.

To the second point of including proprietary drivers, firmware, and appplications: we once again meet the questionable argument of transforming an OS to something else. Points are made that Android doesn't fit the GNU ideals due to its usage and inclusion of proprietary kernel modules, firmware, and userland applications. These are valid points to be made in that these additions muddy the aspect of Android (as packaged by Google and major smartphone manufacturers) being truly free software. However the same can be said about traditional "GNU/Linux distributions". Any device running on x86 (Intel, AMD) will be subject to needing proprietary firmware in order to function with that firmware having a higher control level than the kernel itself, just as Android would. There is also the note that while it is less necessary now to have a functioning desktop, a good portion of hardware (NVidia, Broadcom, Intel, etc.) require proprietary kernel modules and/or userland drivers in order to have full functionality that the average user may want. Finally, there is proprietary applications as well. Some Linux desktops include proprietary applications like Spotify, Steam, Google Chrome by default. Are we really to also exclude an overwhelming majority of the biggest Linux distros as Linux as well being that they include proprietary software or rely on proprietary code in some fashion? GNU itself lists very few distros as GNU-approved.

To note, AOSP does have a different userland environment than your standard Linux distro running X11 or Wayland. That is by far the best reason I could think of to classify Android as a different category of 'Linux' from say Debian, Fedora, OpenSUSE, Arch, Gentoo, Slackware, and others. However, AOSP is still capable of running with no proprietary userland software and can even be made to still run cli applications as well as run an X11 server that is capable of launching familiar desktop Linux applications. I really think that the arbitrary exclusion of Android from being Linux by virtue that RMS doesn't think it fits with GNU ideals is silly. If there are better arguments to be said for why Android (especially AOSP) shouldn't be seen as Linux with a different userland ecosystem rather than not Linux entirely, I'd love to see them. However, I remain unconvinced so far.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago

Stallman has absolutely no say about what makes Linux. His tools, though important to the free software movement, are not necessary to create a Linux distribution.

There is NO GNU/Linux. Stallman doesn't get to name or claim ownership of someone else's baby. It's Linux, so named by its creator.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago

maybe check this out -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)

Android is a mobile operating system based on a modified version of the Linux kernel

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

The kernel used by Android is Linux, just like the kernel used by PiOS.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

You don't run application softwares on top of kernel. The kernel itself is not an operating system.
It needs certain libraries. I'm talking about software availability on arm linux

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

I have a couple RPis and there is plenty of software that runs on them.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

Looks like the Google bots are dominant here also ... pushing the android abomination.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 6 months ago

Even Debian has had ARM support since 2000. It's not just ready, it's mature.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 months ago

I want RISC-V chips to become common-place. Fuck ARM.

Anti Commercial-AI license

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Support by packages is generally there. What is lacking however, are drivers for video acceleration and many other soc- and often board-specific customisations required.

X86 in contrary offers one unified and queriable interface (ACPI, UEFI) that makes custom images unnecessary. ARM has ServerReady for that, however I'm not aware of any consumer chip that implements this.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

not aware of any consumer chip that implements this.

And that's on purpose.

Also on purpose is the fact that no one is investigating ARM'S dominance.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

I used a PineBook 2 as a secondary machine, daily, for a couple of years. I never felt constrained by the CPU architecture, barely noticed it mostly. I stopped using it because it fell apart physically, but it was perfectly stable. I'd get another if I could get a sturdier one.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I’m more excited for Linux on RISC-V, but yeah, Arm is neat.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

There's an unofficial project that aims to bring Arch Linux to RISC-V, it's still a work in progress though: https://archriscv.felixc.at/

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

ARM support is decent already, I just hope RISC-V catches on

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

I'd say we (the linux community) are working on it. It's much better than let's say 5 years ago. Quite a few mainstream distros like Fedora and Ubuntu have ARM builds, there's Armbian (Debian for ARM), Arch Linux for ARM and even Pop!_OS has a Raspberry Pi build. As you mentioned, there's Asahi Linux for Apple Silicon Macs as well as an unofficial version of Ubuntu called Ubuntu Asahi.