this post was submitted on 04 Apr 2024

64 points (95.7% liked)

Technology

59434 readers

2943 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.

Our Rules

Follow the lemmy.world rules.
Only tech related content.
Be excellent to each another!
Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
Politics threads may be removed.
No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

Microsoft announces pricing details for Extended Security Update program for Windows 10 (alternativeto.net)

submitted 7 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

22 comments fedilink hide all child comments

top 22 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] [email protected] 18 points 7 months ago (3 children)

So whats to say with the machines that cant update to win 11? They just become ewaste?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)

our pc shop restores older machines with Arch Linux using the Gnome desktop for fifty out the door and comes with a new SSD

out of all the calls we receive on jobs we have already completed Windows has more phone time and questions out of the box than Linux which surprised us

and as for troubleshooting or walking patrons through simple things Linux has been easier for them to manage and us to explain over the phone even when having to pull the console up

talking people with little to no experience with computers some being fresh beginners

[–] [email protected] 33 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Arch is cool and all, but why in the world is that your choice for nontechnical users… it is not robust and isn’t meant to be.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

we only started these restores a year ago and when we did all the main distros and others were tested and researched on for this project

ultimately Arch was chosen due to pacman and the AUR repositories plus steam was using it

the shop packed the install with what they deemed universally needed packages including edge for the browser

most patrons do like the familiarity that it provides and edge allows for office365

a lot of us were super skeptical on this when we were told and had a lot of the same reservations but it has turned sales around one hundred percent though with a lot of ewaste saved

the oldest was a centrino laptop from 2007 had the original hdd in it

the patrons either use the console and update themselves or they bring it back for updates with some watching us do the updates then doing it themselves at home

linux has made computers fun again at least at our place

[–] [email protected] 18 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Wish you the best, but its a bad choice. The AUR isn’t safe, as-in reliable between updates.

Valve makes snapshots into their versioned atomic OS, so its safe. Plus a few custom packages, they don’t just use Arch and their choice isn’t relevant IMO.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yup, if I were doing this business, I'd install Linux Mint by default, though I'd offer a few other options if customers want something specific.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Or Fedora if the user picks Gnome. Honestly, don’t make users pick distros, but user interfaces. Most wouldn’t want to understand the technical differences between Mint/Fedora/whatever because at the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

Agreed. If the customer knows what distro they want, they can install it themselves.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

You click a checkbox in Rufus and install it anyways. Debloated win 10 Vs win 11 made no difference on a Core2Duo system in my experience.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

So because a machine can't run Win11 it has to be trashed?

I have a desktop still running Win7, just fine.

Multiple laptops running 10, just fine.

Businesses have a support need which drives their upgrades. Consumer doesn't need to, with just a little effort.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago

Running Windows 7 in 2024 is reckless, tbh 💀

[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

TL;DR: $61 a year, more than half the cost of a "lifetime" Windows Home license.

After two years of extended updates, you've paid more than you would have for a license for Windows 11 Home. After 3 years, you're less than $20 away from having paid for Windows 11 Pro.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 7 months ago (2 children)

But no one is buying this because they can't afford windows 11 or something.

This is for businesses that have trouble with updating or have older hardware that they want to use.

No one is buying this for Windows 10 home.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago

No one is buying because it requires certain hardware features that only recent computers have.
Even my 2019 laptop isn't eligible for the free upgrade without some hack to install.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Hmmm, I could have sworn this was also the consumer pricing, but going back over the last few articles, it looks like you're correct that they haven't specified the consumer pricing yet.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago

Honestly it doesn't matter because pretty much no consumers are going to buy this no matter the price.

99,99% of Windows users won't even install security updates unless Microsoft forces them to.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I realize I'm preaching to the choir on here, but really has never been a better time to learn Linux

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)

And "learning Linux" really isn't the huge learning curve many make it out to be. You can get everything set up and ready for gaming or whatever with a handful of GUI tools:

Etcher or similar for getting the install media ready
Boot into the install media by holding F11, Esc, or Del (depends on computer)
Follow instructions in install process
Use Discover (pre-installed in many distros) to install Steam and anything else you might need
Login, install games, and play

There are some hiccups here and there depending on what you need:

if you have an NVIDIA GPU, you'll need to install drivers (though I'm pretty sure Intel doesn't need any, and AMD certainly doesn't); look up instructions for your distro, don't go to NVIDIA's website
Heroic launcher (again, Discover store) can play games from Epic and GOG
some peripherals may need extra work - most things work out of the box though

But for 90% of people, the five steps above is all you need, and only step 4 is different reinstalling Windows.

[+] [email protected] -9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Right, right.

Power management on Linux is a joke.

Things still require command-line config

No, Linux still isn't ready for the desktop for the average user.

As I said to last person saying Linux on the desktop can compete with Windows:

As some background - I had my first UNIX class in about 1990. I wrote my first Fortran program on a Sperry Rand Univac (punched cards) in about 1985. Cobol was immediately after Fortran (wish I'd stuck with Cobol).

I run a Mint laptop. Power management is a joke. Configured it as best as possible, walked in the other day and it was dead. Windows would never do this, unless you went out of your way to config power management to kill the battery.

There no way even possible via the GUI to config power management for things like low/critical battery conditions /actions.

There are many reasons why Linux doesn't compete with Windows on the desktop - this is just one glaring one.

Now let's look at Office. Open an Excel spreadsheet with tables in any app other than excel. Tables are something that's just a given in excel, takes 10 seconds to setup, and you get automatic sorting and filtering, with near-zero effort. No, I'm not setting up a DB in an open-source competitor to Access. That's just too much effort for simple sorting and filtering tasks, and isn't realistically shareable with other people.

Now there's that print monitor that's on by default, and can only be shut up by using a command line. Wtf? In the 21st century?

Networking... Yea, samba works, but how do you clear creds you used one time to connect to a share, even though you didn't say "save creds"? Oh, yea, command line again or go download an app to clear them for for you. Smh.

Someone else said it better than me:

Every time I've installed Linux as my main OS (many, many times since I was younger), it gets to an eventual point where every single thing I want to do requires googling around to figure out problems. While it's gotten much better, I always ended up reinstalling Windows or using my work Mac. Like one day I turn it on and the monitor doesn't look right. So I installed twenty things, run some arbitrary collection of commands, and it works.... only it doesn't save my preferences.

So then I need to dig into .bashrc or .bash_profile (is bashrc even running? Hey let me investigate that first for 45 minutes) and get the command to run automatically.. but that doesn't work, so now I can't boot.. so I have to research (on my phone now, since the machine deathscreens me once the OS tries to load) how to fix that... then I am writing config lines for my specific monitor so it can access the native resolution... wait, does the config delimit by spaces, or by tabs?? anyway, it's been four hours, it's 3:00am and I'm like Bryan Cranston in that clip from Malcolm in the Middle where he has a car engine up in the air all because he tried to change a lightbulb.

And then I get a new monitor, and it happens all damn over again. Oh shit, I got a new mouse too, and the drivers aren't supported - great! I finally made it to Friday night and now that I have 12 minutes away from my insane 16 month old, I can't wait to search for some drivers so I can get the cursor acceleration disabled. Or enabled. Or configured? What was I even trying to do again? What led me to this?

I just can't do it anymore. People who understand it more than I will downvote and call me an idiot, but you can all kiss my ass because I refuse to do the computing equivalent of building a radio out of coconuts on a deserted island of ancient Linux forum posts because I want to have Spotify open on startup EVERY time and not just one time. I have tried to get into Linux as a main dev environment since 1997 and I've loved/liked/loathed it, in that order, every single time.

I respect the shit out of the many people who are far, far smarter than me who a) built this stuff, and 2) spend their free time making Windows/Mac stuff work on a Linux environment, but the part of me who liked to experiment with Linux has been shot and killed and left to rot in a ditch along the interstate.

Now I love Linux for my services: Proxmox, UnRAID, TrueNAS, containers for Syncthing, PiHole, Owncloud/NextCloud, CasaOS/Yuno, etc, etc. I even run a few Windows VM's on Linux (Proxmox) because that's better than running Linux VM's of a Windows server.

Linux is brilliant for this stuff. Just not brilliant for a desktop, let alone in a business environment.

If it were 40 years ago, maybe Linux would've had a chance to beat MS, even then it would've required settling on a single GUI (which is arguably half of why Windows became a standard, the other half being a common API), a common build (so the same tools/utilities are always available), and a commitment to put usability for the inexperienced user first.

These are what MS did in the 1980's to make Windows attractive to the 3 groups who contend with desktops: developers, business management, end users.

Also, not sure what Linux has to do with Teams.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

Power management

Not necessary for most setups, since most people tend to just leave their laptops plugged in. Even then, it's generally fine, I get comparable battery life between Windows and Linux on my laptop, and that's without any tweaks.

And yeah, some things may be easier to do with the command-line, but very few things need command-line config. You'd only really need it if you're doing something exotic or using really crappy hardware.

average user

The average user just needs a browser and maybe Steam. Linux does both of those things incredibly well, so it's absolutely ready for the average user. It may not be suitable for the average Windows power-user, and it struggles in some niches. But for your average user, it pretty much works out of the box.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Oh dear Lord. Hallelujah. Lol

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

It won't be long now before all Microsoft products need a monthly fee. Now people will actually have to switch to Linux due to cost instead of switching to Linux just because they want to.