669
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 16 Jan 2026
669 points (94.7% liked)
Memes
55518 readers
1207 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 7 years ago
MODERATORS
Shadowbanning is when you can keep replying but no-one can see it and you don't know that you're banned.
As I said initially, if every instance was Piefed - you wouldn't be able to reply in the first place to someone who has blocked you. Whilst that interpretation of blocking could be disagreeable, it's not what I consider 'shadowbanning' as you're being directly blocked from interacting.
Every instance isn't PieFed, though. PieFed exists in the context of Lemmy, as Lemmy does PieFed. In its current iteration, it's shadowbanning at best and more draconian censorship at worst. I understand that you'd be right if we all jumped to PieFed, but given what I consider are its anti-features I never intend to do so, not to mention the deplorable views of Rimu. I know I'm not alone in that.
I know. I'm just saying that the function is not meant to shadowban as you allege.
Do you think the only reason a software owner developing a social-media type site might have to stop people from being able to reply to those who blocked them is to censor communists?
No, and I've never made that point, only that it's a significant portion of how Rimu designs PieFed. Never the only or even the most important, but important enough to have an impact, as proven with censoring Hexbear and Lemmygrad by default.
Your claim that his desire to censor communists plays a "significant portion" here in decisions he has made for the platform is completely and utterly baseless in the first place. The only thing you can point to, so far as I can see - at a platform level, is him censoring Hexbear and Lemmygrad as part of the default packaged federation block.
I can also point to the fact that PieFed has lots of more tools for censorship, in a way that more effectively silences minority opinions, which communism absolutely is on PieFed as most of us are on Lemmy.
What censorship tools are these? Are you going to refer to the reputation issue again?
Sure., that's one of them, along with making blocking hexbear and lemmygrad blocked by default so unsuspecting new admins aren't exposed to leftists, blocking the ability to reply entitely for blocked accounts, etc. Are you trying to convince me to like these features?
Doesn't actually censor. The purpose of this is to identify potential troll accounts as yes, despite some more long-term users potentially getting hit with this for interacting in caustic debate communities a lot - 9/10 of people who get this tag are spammers, trolls etc.
This isn't to do with trying to censor any political viewpoint though, and derives from not wanting users to receive repeated unwanted contact publicly from a user they've blocked.
It's my understanding that social credit outright limits your ability to post, comment, vote, etc.
I understand, but it's more unreasonable to suggest that the anti-communist views of Rimu played absolutely no part in deciding to make this a feature, intentionally or not. This opens up blocking to abuse, where one can abuse someone by blocking them and then smearing said user (as Open Stars does with their PieFed account and constantly smearing me as a sea-lion troll).
No, that's if you heavily downvote. That's your //attitude// - not your reputation. Heavy downvoters can lose the ability to downvote (not comment).
Sorry, nope. This just flatout does not follow at all. I see no reason why it would have had any relevance to this particular function whatsoever.
Yes, it can cause that. Of course it also goes both ways - without blocking working like that, a blocked user could just follow the person who has blocked them around on-site and continually pester them without them knowing. There is no good way to implement blocking that doesn't have some level of disagreement from people.
Thanks for adding information on the social credit score, though I still don't like it.
Humans do not simply lose all bias when developing things, creative outputs are a reflection of our views and ways of thinking, intentionally or not.
It's better for blocked users to be able to clear their name and mods/admins take action if necessary than it is to entirely shut out interraction, if the end result from the user is the same. There's no pestering if they can't see it.
If your reputation is
< -10you cannot downvoteReputation is indeed different from attitude, and skavau is correct that if a user casts (upvotes+1) downvotes, that user will be unable to downvote (I love when I can just paste the same link) however the reputation thing is still true, and skavau is wrong on that. There is however indeed (to my knowledge) no block on creating posts or comments based on either of the two.
Also, I doubt that skavau is correct that if we all used piefed, you wouldn't be able to reply to users on other instances if they have blocked you. A quick look at the code hasn't proven me wrong, but I'll make two accounts on piefed instances and test.
Ah, gotcha! Thanks for elaborating!
https://lemmy.ml/post/41950922 (blockers perspective, commenters perspective)
yeah of course. Like what is skavau talking about, does blud know how federation works?
Interesting, makes sense. Blocking alone may be correct in that if everyone had the same block protocol, ie Lemmy or PieFed, then consistency wouldn't be an issue, but federation and defederation still remains open.
It would require blocks to be federated, as it is now that doesn't happen, so even if you snapped your fingers and every instance was a piefed one, it wouldn't stop people from replying to blockers.
Gotcha, makes sense. It's only in limited, personal cases that it works, within the same instance.
That's a bug, if so. As I have spoken to Rimu about this and he said that blocking is specifically meant to prevent the blocked user from replying to the other user.
Suggest to Rimu to start federating blocks or something?
Bias for what? Again - many block systems work like the way Piefed has designed it. Your claim that it is somehow connected to his overarching dislike of communism here is completely and utterly baseless. Why should I just accept that? Because you claim it?
And that's your position on it - but others disagree. The other user can't see that (hypothetically) they're being smeared and harassed across the Fediverse in this case. Whatever the disagreements here, it has nothing to do with trying to stop communists.
The argument you're making is that the views, opinions, and ideas held by people have no impact on what they design or how if there isn't a "smoking gun" linking them. This is absurd, though, as we couldn't create without views, ideas, and opinions, and we cannot sipmply shut out all views we hold when creating. Rimu has already proven willingness to do so with default blocking Hexbear and Lemmygrad to begin with.
I'm aware others disagree with me, I've said PieFed exists for those that want it and Lemmy for those that want it. Others disagree with you, and that's fine.
I'm saying that the way in which Piefed handles blocking functions has nothing to do with Rimus position on Hexbear/Lemmygrad. I can't see the meaningful connection there at all.
Most admin tools on Piefed, by the way, are crafted on the basis of trying to mitigate AI spam, trolling, abuse etc. Do you accept that?
Rimu has made it clear that communist views are to be hidden and obscured, and implementing harsher censorship options that allows prominent users like Open Stars to publicly and repeatedly bash me with no way for me to clear my name directly can be seen as an example of the end result of this. It makes less sense to thoroughly divorce the two and say there's absolutely 0 overlap than it does to say that there may be slight overlap.
The "harsher censorship option" here is simply the blocking system which was not designed specifically to censor communists. Because a user with a specific grievance with it has blocked you doesn't somehow make it designed for it anymore than if a lemmy.ml blocked PugJesus and kept complaining about them (knowing PugJesus could not respond as he is based on piefed).
I never said that it was specifically designed to censor communists. You keep reading absolutes out of my comments when I am talking about influence.
I see no reason to believe that Rimus anti-communist disposition has anything whatsoever to do with how he set up the block system.
I see no reason whatsoever to believe that Rimu's anti-communist stances have absolutely nothing to do with features implemented into PieFed.
I simply fail to see the relevant connection between deciding how blocking should function on Piefed and being anti-communist here at all. I think a position on harassment is a far more likely relevant aspect here. You are making completely baseless assumptions. There's nothing that really can be done at an admin/instance level to somehow specifically mitigate communism beyond blocking Hexbear/Lemmygrad in the first place.
My point isn't that harassment isn't a reason for the blocking anti-feature, but that Rimu's anti-communism is also likely having an impact on making stronger censorship tools. Again, you're reading absolutes when I'm talking about influence.
This again is completely baseless. You have not spoken to Rimu regarding this and have zero idea of his motives. I see zero connection here. I can easily imagine a hypothetical communist social space designing a block system to work in the same way.
But we aren't talking about hypotheticals, we are talking about real views and someone who allows those views to influence their development of FOSS.
Again, no reason to connect Rimus anti-communist position with his stance on how blocking should work. They have zero relation.
No reason to say they have zero relation. If we consider it a scale of relation between 0 and 100, it's just as unreasonable to say it has 0 relation as it is to say that they are fully related. My point is that it has some influence.
Explain to me how they could be connected please.
I already have, Rimu opposes the widespread communist presence on Lemmy and is making tools that make it easier to censor views admins deem unsavory. I even gave you an example of it in practice.
The blocking tool is not an admin-level tool. Anyone can block.
Would you argue that the anti-AI checks on Piefed constitute an attempt to try to censor communists?
I understand that anyone can block, it's almost like you're intentionally missing my point. By deliberately fostering an environment where liberalism is the default, and creating tools to make it easier to shut out minority views entirely, these tools reinforce the dominant viewpoint.
Anyone being able to block doesn't inherently make liberalism the default. That liberalism is broadly the wider default across the Fediverse is incidental here. Rimu was not specifically holding communism in mind when designing the block functions.
In fact, in regard to discussions on this we have had about mitigation tools, most of it relates to community news spammers, trolls, AI trolls etc. Most of the admin level checks are designed with those types of users in mind.
Liberalism is the default on PieFed because the communists are largely on Lemmy and PieFed is largely made up of those jumping from Lemmy.world. It's a liberal-dominated space, and as such tools meant to push out minority views will uphold that. If communism were the default on PieFed then these same tools would push out liberalism, but my point is that this isn't reality.
Piefed federates with the same communities as lemmy.world and most other instances. By "Lemmy" you specifically mean 3 instances.
Yes your argument for the effects of the blocking function here are true based on the wider demographics of the Fediverse - but ultimately that is not why it was designed. That was my point.
You can't definitively say that Rimu's views have no impact on his work, when we know they do.
We are beyond max comment depth, and aren't going to agree. No point in continuing.
I should have also done this yesterday 😭
They do, to be sure, but you are severely overemphasising his anti-communist positions and injecting it where there is no obvious connection at all. And having spoken to him, I see no reason to make this connection here at all.
Piefed originally hid the mod logs and upvoting and downvoting data from users. Why? Because Rimu felt it could be used to harass and cause drama. It is likely the same mindset from which the blocklist logic comes from.
He eventually mostly about-turned on this due to most people opposing it.
I never once said Rimu is personally attacking me, but building tools to shut out minority opinions and fostering a space where liberalism is the majority.
That could be the impact of the blocking system for some people, but that is not why it was designed like that.
You have no evidence that Rimu's views had no impact on why he made it easier to shut out minority views.
Other than my many interactions with him on this stuff and knowing his wider philosophy here. You have zero evidence that he made blocking like that just specifically so users like OpenStars could block you to reduce your spread because you happen to be a communist.
You keep speaking as if I have never interacted with Rimu.