this post was submitted on 26 Mar 2024
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[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago (171 children)

Wrote this before and I'll write it again. People need to understand the broader context here:

Tough for Biden to balance between:

  • Leaning too heavily into Israel and siding with genocide.

  • Leaning too heavily against, and being accused of being pro-Hamas.

Worse, if Biden withdraws all aid to Israel and then Israel is hit with another terrorist attack, manufactured or not, that's the end of Biden. I think we can all agree that right-wing media propaganda is very effective and the ads would write themselves.

Within the electorate resides Jewish Americans who still largely support Israel by the polling, and the progressives and Palestinian Americans (a far smaller voting bloc).

The best Biden is going to manage in toeing the line is singling out Netanyahu (who himself is unpopular in Israel) instead of Israel itself and actions like this.

The risk obviously being that if Biden loses this election, the guy who wouldn't just indirectly but likely directly commit genocide against Palestinians would come in and you certainly wouldn't hear the words, "indiscriminate bombing" from Trump's facial sphincter.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (93 children)

Oh no, he will be accused of being pro-Hamas. Just like when you criritize him you are accused of being pro-Trump, or if you critize evil NATO countries are doing, you are called pro-Russian. If people are that stupid to not see this clear tactic that everyone who critiques me must support my enemies, then you should maybe they shouldn't use the same tactic when it suits them.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago (92 children)
  1. It's a waste of time — Especially in an election year with so much on the line and post-primaries — to criticize Biden and instead better to criticize the groups who continue to support Israel. When the polls shift, the administration will shift... As has already occurred.

  2. I don't give a fuck if you do, so long as you vote and support Biden in November. Palestinians and Ukrainians are counting on us, and the guaranteed-alternative is significantly-worse. I just had some other fool tell me they're voting 3rd-party, so they are clearly supporting the enemies. I hope you're smarter.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (3 children)
  1. They don't shift policies, they shift marketing. They will continue to support Israel because they are treating you with Trump and you have to vote for them whatever they do. So change is never going to happen.
  2. Either vote third party or don't waste your time voting. You are getting nothing better with democrats. Trump is a candidate that was placed there by the democrats so they can have a better chance in the elections. In next elections they will simply move the goal post and get someone even worse for Republican party and whatever you are voting against in these elections will be the democrat position in the next one.
[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

Trump is a candidate that was placed there by the democrats so they can have a better chance in the elections.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Either vote third party or don’t waste your time voting. You are getting nothing better with democrats. Trump is a candidate that was placed there by the democrats so they can have a better chance in the elections. In next elections they will simply move the goal post and get someone even worse for Republican party and whatever you are voting against in these elections will be the democrat position in the next one.

Ladies and gentlemen, a wedge-driving operative seeking to undermine Democrats and get Trump into office. There is literally zero evidence that "Trump is a candidate that was placed there by Democrats". There is zero historical evidence voting third party does anything more than get the worse of two evils in office — and Ukrainians and Palestinians would much prefer Biden over Trump any day.

This is the rhetoric of someone either not either not familiar with the political system, or intentionally trying to undermine the left by opening the door for conservatives.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

There is zero historical evidence voting third party does anything more than get the worse of two evils in office

no such evidence is possible: you can't prove a counterfactual. you can't know who the worse evil would be. further it's not clear that so-called "third party" voters actually impact elections at all unless their candidate wins.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

No, we can. 3rd parties have been around for decades and won nothing and only exacerbated the goals of said parties by undermining the only party that has tangible results.

You prove my point.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

we can.

it's impossible to prove a counterfactual. you are either unfamiliar with the scientific method or you are deliberately lying.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (42 children)

3rd parties have been around for decades and won nothing and only exacerbated the goals of said parties by undermining the only party that has tangible results.

this simply isn't true and reflects a myopic view of history. so-called third parties have been with us almost since the inception of the us, and have accomplished things inconceivable to modern politicians.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

You prove my point.

no, i don't.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

This is the rhetoric of someone either not either not familiar with the political system, or intentionally trying to undermine the left by opening the door for conservatives.

false dichotomy. they may be familiar with the political system (even more than you or i), and not believe the same things you do. they may be a leftist. you are making up attacks on their person instead of dealing with the substance of their claims.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

No, commie (username), I'm simply grounded in reality.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

that's a thought-terminating cliche like saying it's common sense. if you can't support your position, that's no reason to go off attacking other people as malevolent or incompetent.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

My original statements remain largely untouched; it's not my issue you deflected the aforementioned points. Why proceed further?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (7 children)

you deflected the aforementioned points.

this is ambiguous. what do you mean?

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (4 children)

Nobody in the entire country would've disagreed with that strategy at the time, for quite literally everyone including Republicans thought Trump would doom the party. Hindsight is 20/20

That, however isn't the same as saying Trump is a Democratic plant colluding in disguise lol.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

Trump is a Democratic plant colluding in disguise

no one said that.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Nobody in the entire country would’ve disagreed with that strategy at the time

you are now shifting the goalposts from "it didn't happen" to "it was a good idea".

That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
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