Men's Liberation
This community is first and foremost a feminist community for men and masc people, but it is also a place to talk about men’s issues with a particular focus on intersectionality.
Rules
Everybody is welcome, but this is primarily a space for men and masc people
Non-masculine perspectives are incredibly important in making sure that the lived experiences of others are present in discussions on masculinity, but please remember that this is a space to discuss issues pertaining to men and masc individuals. Be kind, open-minded, and take care that you aren't talking over men expressing their own lived experiences.
Be productive
Be proactive in forming a productive discussion. Constructive criticism of our community is fine, but if you mainly criticize feminism or other people's efforts to solve gender issues, your post/comment will be removed.
Keep the following guidelines in mind when posting:
- Build upon the OP
- Discuss concepts rather than semantics
- No low effort comments
- No personal attacks
Assume good faith
Do not call other submitters' personal experiences into question.
No bigotry
Slurs, hate speech, and negative stereotyping towards marginalized groups will not be tolerated.
No brigading
Do not participate if you have been linked to this discussion from elsewhere. Similarly, links to elsewhere on the threadiverse must promote constructive discussion of men’s issues.
Recommended Reading
- The Will To Change: Men, Masculinity, And Love by bell hooks
- Politics of Masculinities: Men in Movements by Michael Messner
Related Communities
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Grievance-based identity… Interesting that it is attributed by the author to straight white males; on the right “oppression olympics”, i.e., grievance-based identity, is attributed predominantly to the left.
You do bring up an interesting point there. It does make me wonder how much each “side” is attributing behaviours to strawman versions of the other vs not seeing what they have themselves.
I personally strongly related to the article, I think there’s a crisis in finding meaning in masculinity these days. I think the red pill alt-right types are promoting an easy but unhealthy version of masculinity (fulfilling yourself by status symbols, or min-maxing something, or really falling into the alpha/beta/sigma nonsense).
Masculinity is always in crisis. Has been for centuries. It has to be in crisis to sustain the patriarchy.
Christians are famous for their persecution complex, so this feels like an "every accusation is a confession" thing.
Are you assuming that most straight white males are religious and Christian? There’s probably some truth to this, at least in the US, but I doubt that most straight white males are religious enough to have a persecution complex. Moreover, from my understanding and experience, the persecution complex is mainly attributable to Catholics, which further reduces the sample size. On the other hand, I think some flavour of a persecution complex could be attributed to any religion, not just Christianity. After all, religions control through shaming inappropriate behaviours and rewarding desired behaviours.
I was mostly assuming right-leaning people in the US tend to be Christians, pointing out that a cohort known for projecting their problems perhaps isn't the best to contrast with.
My comment was somewhat flippant, but you raise a good point in that not all Christian denominations maintain a persecution complex. A generalization on my part, I admit.
It occurs to me now that I don't quite understand your point. Are you suggesting that people tend to accuse groups they don't belong to of a "grievance-based identity" as a strawman? Or is your point about drawing a parallel between accusatory conservatives and concerned mothers? Or is your point perhaps simply that the author is othering her child?
My original point was mainly about both sides (left and right) attributing grievance-based identity to each other. There’s probably more to it than that. The truth is out there, but I feel like neither side is doing enough to understand the nuances of what’s going on in society and oversimplifies the dynamics at hand.