THE POLICE PROBLEM
The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.
99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.
When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.
When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."
When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.
Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.
The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.
All this is a path to a police state.
In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.
Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.
That's the solution.
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Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.
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RULES
① Real-life decorum is expected. Please don't say things only a child or a jackass would say in person.
② If you're here to support the police, you're trolling. Please exercise your right to remain silent.
③ Saying ~~cops~~ ANYONE should be killed lowers the IQ in any conversation. They're about killing people; we're not.
④ Please don't dox or post calls for harassment, vigilantism, tar & feather attacks, etc.
Please also abide by the instance rules.
It you've been banned but don't know why, check the moderator's log. If you feel you didn't deserve it, hey, I'm new at this and maybe you're right. Send a cordial PM, for a second chance.
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ALLIES
• r/ACAB
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INFO
• A demonstrator's guide to understanding riot munitions
• Cops aren't supposed to be smart
• Killings by law enforcement in Canada
• Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom
• Killings by law enforcement in the United States
• Know your rights: Filming the police
• Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)
• Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.
• Police lie under oath, a lot
• Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak
• Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street
• Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States
• When the police knock on your door
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ORGANIZATIONS
• NAACP
• National Police Accountability Project
• Vera: Ending Mass Incarceration
view the rest of the comments
Lots of states do have "stop and ID" laws. So...
Example with the actual statute? Even Terry V Ohio doesn’t allow for identification. Just an external pat down if there is RAS. As shitty and unconstitutional as that ruling happens to be.
Roughly half of the US has these laws. Here's Alabama for example.
Appreciate the reply. It is important to note that even those states require reasonable articulable suspicion of an actual crime and that the person is detained under such articulable suspicion. If you invoked your 4th and 5th amendment right even under those circumstances, they would have the burden to articulate in court the specific crime and why they believed you were involved in that crime. Stop and ID is a bit misleading as it still requires specific narrow suspicion that is tied to an actual crime and the person is detained under that context.
That's true, but they have "qualified immunity" so there's basically no consequences for them to just make shit up to get your ID anyway. When it's their turn in front of the judge they'll play the "glassy/bloodshot eyes + odor of alcohol/weed" card, and the most you can really hope for is them getting suspended with pay.
It's a bullshit RAS and everyone knows it, but it gets them past the "reasonable" part of "unreasonable search and seizure" so no 4th amendment rights are technically violated and it's practically impossible to prove otherwise. Until bodycams can capture smell, there's really no way around it.
You'd be risking a misdemeanor charge, jail time, and time/energy/money spent on dealing with court just to avoid a small inconvenience. And refusing to ID in those states is basically begging them to search your car too, so despite how blatantly unjust it is, it's really not worth it.