this post was submitted on 09 Jul 2023
25 points (90.3% liked)
GenZedong
4302 readers
198 users here now
This is a Dengist community in favor of Bashar al-Assad with no information that can lead to the arrest of Hillary Clinton, our fellow liberal and queen. This community is not ironic. We are Marxists-Leninists.
This community is for posts about Marxism and geopolitics (including shitposts to some extent). Serious posts can be posted here or in /c/GenZhou. Reactionary or ultra-leftist cringe posts belong in /c/shitreactionariessay or /c/shitultrassay respectively.
We have a Matrix homeserver and a Matrix space. See this thread for more information. If you believe the server may be down, check the status on status.elara.ws.
Rules:
- No bigotry, anti-communism, pro-imperialism or ultra-leftism (anti-AES)
- We support indigenous liberation as the primary contradiction in settler colonies like the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Israel
- If you post an archived link (excluding archive.org), include the URL of the original article as well
- Unless it's an obvious shitpost, include relevant sources
- For articles behind paywalls, try to include the text in the post
- Mark all posts containing NSFW images as NSFW (including things like Nazi imagery)
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Socially necessary labour time roughly means that something must be useful to have value. Commodities are a dialectic of use value and exchange value. Without both, it’s not a commodity. Socially necessary labour time is the average time that it takes to produce the usefulness of a commodity. The more time it takes, on average, the more value it contains.
If value equals labour time, a slow worker would create more value than a faster worker. That can’t be right. So Marx added the ‘socially necessary’.
Imagine that society as a whole creates 40,000 widgets per week. There are several widget factories, totalling 1,000 workers, each working 40 hours. In total, the socially necessary labour time is 40,000 hours per 40,000 widgets, which equals on hour per widget.
A slow worker does not make double the value of the average worker by taking two hours to make one widget. This is because society, as a whole and on average, only needs one hour of labour time. Society is not restricted by one slow worker because the average and faster workers pick up the slack.
Equally, a faster worker does not make half the value of the average worker by making two widgets per hour. Society cannot rely on one fast worker to make all its widgets. However fast they are, one worker can only produce so much. But, if someone develops technology that cuts the labour-time in half, the socially necessary labour-time also halves once the technology becomes widely used.
Marx, Capital vol I, ch 1:
I mention all this to suggest that if we were to rely on the labour-theory of value to determine the value of art, we might be arguing for a capitalist way of deciding whether and how much value something has.
The LtoV is not a socialist concept but a political economic concept necessary for understanding value. Marx merely refined the formula because Ricardo’s (IIRC, without the ‘socially necessary’ element) could not explain, among other things, why slower workers do not produce more value than faster workers. That situation is logically contradictory but bourgeois political economists couldn’t explain it before Marx.
It seems that seeking compensation for art means seeking to realise exchange value from the production of commodities. Based on the above outline, the LtoV simply gives us the accurate formula for determining that exchange value – it is dialectically related to its use value, which is dialectically related to the socially necessary labour time crystallised within it. If society doesn’t need or want an artefact, it will have no use value, thus no exchange value, and the time spent producing it was socially unnecessary.
If this is right, then the LtoV may not provide a mechanism for improving the compensation of artists. Instead, it explains why artists’s compensation is tied to consumer wants and needs. The problem may be that the LtoV is a concept needed to understand capitalist political economy and so ‘economic’ value. It doesn’t necessarily help us to decide how socialists might want to determine value as it moves away from commodity production.
Still, again, I fundamentally agree with you: the capitalist rationale for producing art, to produce value, should be abolished. To do so, it will be necessary to detach artistic, cultural value from economic value. But that means not doing art for money, which is a problem. It’s hard not to detach art from economic value in capitalism, however, because the natural state is to fetishise commodities and to commodify every relation.
This seems fairly easy to fix in a socialist state. Just have art funds to dedicate towards artistic projects as a use of taxpayer money.