▲ 1265 ▼ The state of the discourse. (lemmy.world) submitted 2 years ago by STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world to c/aboringdystopia@lemmy.world 444 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 22 points 2 years ago (5 children) Do people think Hamas wouldn't hide in a hospital? Theyve proved many times civilians aren't a concern permalink fedilink source hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] Kalkaline@leminal.space 80 points 2 years ago (4 children) Do people think that there can't be two bad guys in a story? This isn't a good vs evil fight. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 36 points 2 years ago "Good guys" are a myth invented by Hollywood to sell action figures permalink fedilink source parent [–] NounsAndWords@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago Do people think that there can’t be two bad guys in a story? You're not going to like the answer... permalink fedilink source parent [–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) It truly is a wonder some can't think that far permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago Really disappoints me. In some ways, this might reflect the futility of multi party systems. At the end of the day, coalitions of multiple groups are still split into two camps of government and opposition. We have to stop seeing every conflict as us vs them. permalink fedilink source parent [–] 4lan@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (1 child) This is a war between two terrorist organizations, one of them is funded by the United States. We are funding terrorism. Your tax dollars are going to infant murder. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Kalkaline@leminal.space 5 points 2 years ago Same as it ever was permalink fedilink source parent [–] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 34 points 2 years ago (3 children) So, that justifies killing civilians? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 26 points 2 years ago (2 children) no, that justifies invading a hospital permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago Tbf you'd have to invade the hospital to clear out the Hamas fighters using it as a base, especially if they were forcing it on the hospital staff That or lay siege to it but uh... that'd be about as effective as issuing another round of sanctions on Iran at this point. permalink fedilink source parent [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website -3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Ok, think it though. What happens when you bomb and invade a hospital filled with civilians? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) you think it through. what is the alternative? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) You edited your previous comment. That's just bad form permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) are you seeing things again? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Prove that you didn't edit your comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) that is not how it works. you are making a claim, you have to prove it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website -2 points 2 years ago Can't think of an alternative to killing civilians and can't prove they're not a lier. Nice. permalink fedilink source parent [+] quo@feddit.uk 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (4 children) To not kill babies and people in hospital care. Innocent life is never worth the victory, no matter what the propganda has told you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 7 points 2 years ago* (2 children) When you have time to get off your unicorn and enter the mortal realm where the rest of us live, please present to us a plan to solve this conflict that results in 0 dead kids. We are waiting, as is your Nobel peace prize. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago "We cannot guarantee children will not die so any suggestion we take actions to avoid it as much as possible are entirely unrealistic." permalink fedilink source parent [–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago So because I don't have the solution to fix everything with a neat little bow on top kids should die? Nice permalink fedilink source parent [+] quo@feddit.uk 5 points 2 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Anyone who supports murdering children is terrible. All the time. There's no excuse from anyone to support murdering children regardless of who they think might be hiding among them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] quo@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (2 children) You're just looking to twist everything I say. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] quo@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [+] quo@feddit.uk 0 points 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago Sure just tell the civilian dressed militants to not shoot from civilian populated areas. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Meowoem@sh.itjust.works 1 point 2 years ago You think those babies were getting the medical help they needed? All the fuel and supplies being redirected to Hamas fighters and their control of the building making normal work impossible was killing kids - I bet they're much better off with it run by idf than Hamas. permalink fedilink source parent [–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago That's literally war. Become a general/propose a way to kill /apprehend people that look like civilians while hiding in civilian places permalink fedilink source parent [–] 11181514@lemm.ee 15 points 2 years ago (1 child) I think Hamas is hiding inside your house. What, do people think Hamas wouldn't hide inside your house? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Do you consider that a good rebuttal. Truly a childish mind. Of course you can't comprehend complex situations permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Sidhean@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) "Oh yeah? Well you're a dumb kid who can't think smart thoughts" Fucking gotem permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago Proving me right. Ouch permalink fedilink source parent [–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 2 years ago (1 child) Hamas and Hezbollah are not the public of Palestine. So it raises the question if anybody cares. Netanyahu has made it clear to the rest of us he does not. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago (1 child) They look just like the public and fighting from where the public lives. What is Israel to do? Just accept getting massacred. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Does getting massacred justify massacring tenfold? I'm pretty sure the United States emmisaries had this very conversation with the state of Israel. The thing is, Hamas and Hesbollah see provoking Israel to disproportionate reprisal as a worthwhile gambit. They know Netanyahu is glad to enact genocide justified by retaliation to terror. But now the world will get to watch the horrors of war under Israeli jackboots. And it will be ugly, and the world may have opinions about the Israeli state doing ugly things. The general opinion from the international community is changing. Along with the US' unconditional support of a regional bully. There are better ways. But Israeli state has rejected all alternatives, and is glad to throw stormtroopers into the mix. And yes, the people of Israel, by a significant majority don't want an overkill response. They want a path towards peace. But the far right does like us vs. them dynamics to consolidate power. It's the same playbook Trump uses. I'm not an expert. I don't know how to fix this, but the experts were shown the door, so here we are. 👀 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Well that's war when you have superior firepower you're gonna get more kills. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago When Israel massacres civilians and massacres disproportionately, it then loses the peace. It also reveals its administration is too immature to deserve international support. The indiscriminate brutality of the IDF will reflect both on the the legitimacy of Israel and its allies, hence the conditions now added to US materiel support. I'm very glad you don't have any responsibility in this or any state affair. permalink fedilink source parent [–] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago (3 children) ok but if they're hiding in a hospital you dont need to bomb it? or do anything to it? hiding is not hurting anyone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] rchive@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) For conflicts like this leadership that is planning attacks or otherwise leading forces that are doing attacking, simply existing anywhere outside a prison cell is threatening. Hamas leadership knows that, they're the ones putting hostpitals at risk by being there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) right, but my point is, however inconvenient it is, we always have a choice not to bomb hospitals. People take human shields, you don't have to shoot through the human shields. Do I have all the answers? No, but people go to school for war. Surely this has come up before at some point in the last 20,000 years? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] rchive@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago You certainly should do your best to not shoot through human shields, agreed. But can it still sometimes be better to shoot through human shields if that's what it takes to get very dangerous people vs letting them escape and threaten again later? I don't know, it's a hard question. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) hiding is not hurting anyone. The assholes in the hospital are still shooting at the assholes outside the hospital. Though I still agree the assholes outside shouldn't be bombing it just to get at the assholes inside. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 1 point 2 years ago we saw this in Bosnia and Rwanda, too. This is similar to Bosnia/Serbia/Yugoslavia in a lot of way (especially the siege of Saraievo). permalink fedilink source parent [–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago Depends. Are they artillery spotters. Are they leadership trying to claim to be in a safe you can't tag me zone. Did they just momentarily hide their guns too. Ya gotta secure that shit one way or another otherwise you'll get another massacre. There are no good answers permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Kalkaline@leminal.space 80 points 2 years ago (4 children) Do people think that there can't be two bad guys in a story? This isn't a good vs evil fight. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 36 points 2 years ago "Good guys" are a myth invented by Hollywood to sell action figures permalink fedilink source parent [–] NounsAndWords@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago Do people think that there can’t be two bad guys in a story? You're not going to like the answer... permalink fedilink source parent [–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) It truly is a wonder some can't think that far permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago Really disappoints me. In some ways, this might reflect the futility of multi party systems. At the end of the day, coalitions of multiple groups are still split into two camps of government and opposition. We have to stop seeing every conflict as us vs them. permalink fedilink source parent [–] 4lan@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (1 child) This is a war between two terrorist organizations, one of them is funded by the United States. We are funding terrorism. Your tax dollars are going to infant murder. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Kalkaline@leminal.space 5 points 2 years ago Same as it ever was permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 36 points 2 years ago "Good guys" are a myth invented by Hollywood to sell action figures permalink fedilink source parent
[–] NounsAndWords@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago Do people think that there can’t be two bad guys in a story? You're not going to like the answer... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) It truly is a wonder some can't think that far permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago Really disappoints me. In some ways, this might reflect the futility of multi party systems. At the end of the day, coalitions of multiple groups are still split into two camps of government and opposition. We have to stop seeing every conflict as us vs them. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago Really disappoints me. In some ways, this might reflect the futility of multi party systems. At the end of the day, coalitions of multiple groups are still split into two camps of government and opposition. We have to stop seeing every conflict as us vs them. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 4lan@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (1 child) This is a war between two terrorist organizations, one of them is funded by the United States. We are funding terrorism. Your tax dollars are going to infant murder. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Kalkaline@leminal.space 5 points 2 years ago Same as it ever was permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Kalkaline@leminal.space 5 points 2 years ago Same as it ever was permalink fedilink source parent
[–] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 34 points 2 years ago (3 children) So, that justifies killing civilians? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 26 points 2 years ago (2 children) no, that justifies invading a hospital permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago Tbf you'd have to invade the hospital to clear out the Hamas fighters using it as a base, especially if they were forcing it on the hospital staff That or lay siege to it but uh... that'd be about as effective as issuing another round of sanctions on Iran at this point. permalink fedilink source parent [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website -3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Ok, think it though. What happens when you bomb and invade a hospital filled with civilians? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) you think it through. what is the alternative? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) You edited your previous comment. That's just bad form permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) are you seeing things again? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Prove that you didn't edit your comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) that is not how it works. you are making a claim, you have to prove it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website -2 points 2 years ago Can't think of an alternative to killing civilians and can't prove they're not a lier. Nice. permalink fedilink source parent [+] quo@feddit.uk 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (4 children) To not kill babies and people in hospital care. Innocent life is never worth the victory, no matter what the propganda has told you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 7 points 2 years ago* (2 children) When you have time to get off your unicorn and enter the mortal realm where the rest of us live, please present to us a plan to solve this conflict that results in 0 dead kids. We are waiting, as is your Nobel peace prize. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago "We cannot guarantee children will not die so any suggestion we take actions to avoid it as much as possible are entirely unrealistic." permalink fedilink source parent [–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago So because I don't have the solution to fix everything with a neat little bow on top kids should die? Nice permalink fedilink source parent [+] quo@feddit.uk 5 points 2 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Anyone who supports murdering children is terrible. All the time. There's no excuse from anyone to support murdering children regardless of who they think might be hiding among them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] quo@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (2 children) You're just looking to twist everything I say. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] quo@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [+] quo@feddit.uk 0 points 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago Sure just tell the civilian dressed militants to not shoot from civilian populated areas. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Meowoem@sh.itjust.works 1 point 2 years ago You think those babies were getting the medical help they needed? All the fuel and supplies being redirected to Hamas fighters and their control of the building making normal work impossible was killing kids - I bet they're much better off with it run by idf than Hamas. permalink fedilink source parent [–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago That's literally war. Become a general/propose a way to kill /apprehend people that look like civilians while hiding in civilian places permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 26 points 2 years ago (2 children) no, that justifies invading a hospital permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago Tbf you'd have to invade the hospital to clear out the Hamas fighters using it as a base, especially if they were forcing it on the hospital staff That or lay siege to it but uh... that'd be about as effective as issuing another round of sanctions on Iran at this point. permalink fedilink source parent [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website -3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Ok, think it though. What happens when you bomb and invade a hospital filled with civilians? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) you think it through. what is the alternative? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) You edited your previous comment. That's just bad form permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) are you seeing things again? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Prove that you didn't edit your comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) that is not how it works. you are making a claim, you have to prove it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website -2 points 2 years ago Can't think of an alternative to killing civilians and can't prove they're not a lier. Nice. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago Tbf you'd have to invade the hospital to clear out the Hamas fighters using it as a base, especially if they were forcing it on the hospital staff That or lay siege to it but uh... that'd be about as effective as issuing another round of sanctions on Iran at this point. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website -3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Ok, think it though. What happens when you bomb and invade a hospital filled with civilians? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) you think it through. what is the alternative? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) You edited your previous comment. That's just bad form permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) are you seeing things again? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Prove that you didn't edit your comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) that is not how it works. you are making a claim, you have to prove it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website -2 points 2 years ago Can't think of an alternative to killing civilians and can't prove they're not a lier. Nice. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) you think it through. what is the alternative? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) You edited your previous comment. That's just bad form permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) are you seeing things again? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Prove that you didn't edit your comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) that is not how it works. you are making a claim, you have to prove it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website -2 points 2 years ago Can't think of an alternative to killing civilians and can't prove they're not a lier. Nice. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) You edited your previous comment. That's just bad form permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) are you seeing things again? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Prove that you didn't edit your comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) that is not how it works. you are making a claim, you have to prove it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website -2 points 2 years ago Can't think of an alternative to killing civilians and can't prove they're not a lier. Nice. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) are you seeing things again? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Prove that you didn't edit your comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) that is not how it works. you are making a claim, you have to prove it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website -2 points 2 years ago Can't think of an alternative to killing civilians and can't prove they're not a lier. Nice. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Prove that you didn't edit your comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) that is not how it works. you are making a claim, you have to prove it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website -2 points 2 years ago Can't think of an alternative to killing civilians and can't prove they're not a lier. Nice. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) that is not how it works. you are making a claim, you have to prove it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website -2 points 2 years ago Can't think of an alternative to killing civilians and can't prove they're not a lier. Nice. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] andthenthreemore@startrek.website -2 points 2 years ago Can't think of an alternative to killing civilians and can't prove they're not a lier. Nice. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] quo@feddit.uk 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (4 children) To not kill babies and people in hospital care. Innocent life is never worth the victory, no matter what the propganda has told you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 7 points 2 years ago* (2 children) When you have time to get off your unicorn and enter the mortal realm where the rest of us live, please present to us a plan to solve this conflict that results in 0 dead kids. We are waiting, as is your Nobel peace prize. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago "We cannot guarantee children will not die so any suggestion we take actions to avoid it as much as possible are entirely unrealistic." permalink fedilink source parent [–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago So because I don't have the solution to fix everything with a neat little bow on top kids should die? Nice permalink fedilink source parent [+] quo@feddit.uk 5 points 2 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Anyone who supports murdering children is terrible. All the time. There's no excuse from anyone to support murdering children regardless of who they think might be hiding among them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] quo@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (2 children) You're just looking to twist everything I say. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] quo@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [+] quo@feddit.uk 0 points 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago Sure just tell the civilian dressed militants to not shoot from civilian populated areas. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Meowoem@sh.itjust.works 1 point 2 years ago You think those babies were getting the medical help they needed? All the fuel and supplies being redirected to Hamas fighters and their control of the building making normal work impossible was killing kids - I bet they're much better off with it run by idf than Hamas. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (4 children) To not kill babies and people in hospital care. Innocent life is never worth the victory, no matter what the propganda has told you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 7 points 2 years ago* (2 children) When you have time to get off your unicorn and enter the mortal realm where the rest of us live, please present to us a plan to solve this conflict that results in 0 dead kids. We are waiting, as is your Nobel peace prize. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago "We cannot guarantee children will not die so any suggestion we take actions to avoid it as much as possible are entirely unrealistic." permalink fedilink source parent [–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago So because I don't have the solution to fix everything with a neat little bow on top kids should die? Nice permalink fedilink source parent [+] quo@feddit.uk 5 points 2 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Anyone who supports murdering children is terrible. All the time. There's no excuse from anyone to support murdering children regardless of who they think might be hiding among them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] quo@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (2 children) You're just looking to twist everything I say. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] quo@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [+] quo@feddit.uk 0 points 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago Sure just tell the civilian dressed militants to not shoot from civilian populated areas. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Meowoem@sh.itjust.works 1 point 2 years ago You think those babies were getting the medical help they needed? All the fuel and supplies being redirected to Hamas fighters and their control of the building making normal work impossible was killing kids - I bet they're much better off with it run by idf than Hamas. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 7 points 2 years ago* (2 children) When you have time to get off your unicorn and enter the mortal realm where the rest of us live, please present to us a plan to solve this conflict that results in 0 dead kids. We are waiting, as is your Nobel peace prize. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago "We cannot guarantee children will not die so any suggestion we take actions to avoid it as much as possible are entirely unrealistic." permalink fedilink source parent [–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago So because I don't have the solution to fix everything with a neat little bow on top kids should die? Nice permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago "We cannot guarantee children will not die so any suggestion we take actions to avoid it as much as possible are entirely unrealistic." permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago So because I don't have the solution to fix everything with a neat little bow on top kids should die? Nice permalink fedilink source parent
[+] quo@feddit.uk 5 points 2 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Anyone who supports murdering children is terrible. All the time. There's no excuse from anyone to support murdering children regardless of who they think might be hiding among them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] quo@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (2 children) You're just looking to twist everything I say. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] quo@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [+] quo@feddit.uk 0 points 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Anyone who supports murdering children is terrible. All the time. There's no excuse from anyone to support murdering children regardless of who they think might be hiding among them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] quo@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (2 children) You're just looking to twist everything I say. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] quo@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [+] quo@feddit.uk 0 points 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] quo@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (2 children) You're just looking to twist everything I say. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] quo@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [+] quo@feddit.uk 0 points 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (2 children) You're just looking to twist everything I say. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] quo@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [+] quo@feddit.uk 0 points 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago Sure just tell the civilian dressed militants to not shoot from civilian populated areas. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Meowoem@sh.itjust.works 1 point 2 years ago You think those babies were getting the medical help they needed? All the fuel and supplies being redirected to Hamas fighters and their control of the building making normal work impossible was killing kids - I bet they're much better off with it run by idf than Hamas. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago That's literally war. Become a general/propose a way to kill /apprehend people that look like civilians while hiding in civilian places permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 11181514@lemm.ee 15 points 2 years ago (1 child) I think Hamas is hiding inside your house. What, do people think Hamas wouldn't hide inside your house? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Do you consider that a good rebuttal. Truly a childish mind. Of course you can't comprehend complex situations permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Sidhean@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) "Oh yeah? Well you're a dumb kid who can't think smart thoughts" Fucking gotem permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago Proving me right. Ouch permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Do you consider that a good rebuttal. Truly a childish mind. Of course you can't comprehend complex situations permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Sidhean@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) "Oh yeah? Well you're a dumb kid who can't think smart thoughts" Fucking gotem permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago Proving me right. Ouch permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Sidhean@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) "Oh yeah? Well you're a dumb kid who can't think smart thoughts" Fucking gotem permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago Proving me right. Ouch permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago Proving me right. Ouch permalink fedilink source parent
[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 2 years ago (1 child) Hamas and Hezbollah are not the public of Palestine. So it raises the question if anybody cares. Netanyahu has made it clear to the rest of us he does not. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago (1 child) They look just like the public and fighting from where the public lives. What is Israel to do? Just accept getting massacred. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Does getting massacred justify massacring tenfold? I'm pretty sure the United States emmisaries had this very conversation with the state of Israel. The thing is, Hamas and Hesbollah see provoking Israel to disproportionate reprisal as a worthwhile gambit. They know Netanyahu is glad to enact genocide justified by retaliation to terror. But now the world will get to watch the horrors of war under Israeli jackboots. And it will be ugly, and the world may have opinions about the Israeli state doing ugly things. The general opinion from the international community is changing. Along with the US' unconditional support of a regional bully. There are better ways. But Israeli state has rejected all alternatives, and is glad to throw stormtroopers into the mix. And yes, the people of Israel, by a significant majority don't want an overkill response. They want a path towards peace. But the far right does like us vs. them dynamics to consolidate power. It's the same playbook Trump uses. I'm not an expert. I don't know how to fix this, but the experts were shown the door, so here we are. 👀 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Well that's war when you have superior firepower you're gonna get more kills. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago When Israel massacres civilians and massacres disproportionately, it then loses the peace. It also reveals its administration is too immature to deserve international support. The indiscriminate brutality of the IDF will reflect both on the the legitimacy of Israel and its allies, hence the conditions now added to US materiel support. I'm very glad you don't have any responsibility in this or any state affair. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago (1 child) They look just like the public and fighting from where the public lives. What is Israel to do? Just accept getting massacred. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Does getting massacred justify massacring tenfold? I'm pretty sure the United States emmisaries had this very conversation with the state of Israel. The thing is, Hamas and Hesbollah see provoking Israel to disproportionate reprisal as a worthwhile gambit. They know Netanyahu is glad to enact genocide justified by retaliation to terror. But now the world will get to watch the horrors of war under Israeli jackboots. And it will be ugly, and the world may have opinions about the Israeli state doing ugly things. The general opinion from the international community is changing. Along with the US' unconditional support of a regional bully. There are better ways. But Israeli state has rejected all alternatives, and is glad to throw stormtroopers into the mix. And yes, the people of Israel, by a significant majority don't want an overkill response. They want a path towards peace. But the far right does like us vs. them dynamics to consolidate power. It's the same playbook Trump uses. I'm not an expert. I don't know how to fix this, but the experts were shown the door, so here we are. 👀 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Well that's war when you have superior firepower you're gonna get more kills. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago When Israel massacres civilians and massacres disproportionately, it then loses the peace. It also reveals its administration is too immature to deserve international support. The indiscriminate brutality of the IDF will reflect both on the the legitimacy of Israel and its allies, hence the conditions now added to US materiel support. I'm very glad you don't have any responsibility in this or any state affair. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Does getting massacred justify massacring tenfold? I'm pretty sure the United States emmisaries had this very conversation with the state of Israel. The thing is, Hamas and Hesbollah see provoking Israel to disproportionate reprisal as a worthwhile gambit. They know Netanyahu is glad to enact genocide justified by retaliation to terror. But now the world will get to watch the horrors of war under Israeli jackboots. And it will be ugly, and the world may have opinions about the Israeli state doing ugly things. The general opinion from the international community is changing. Along with the US' unconditional support of a regional bully. There are better ways. But Israeli state has rejected all alternatives, and is glad to throw stormtroopers into the mix. And yes, the people of Israel, by a significant majority don't want an overkill response. They want a path towards peace. But the far right does like us vs. them dynamics to consolidate power. It's the same playbook Trump uses. I'm not an expert. I don't know how to fix this, but the experts were shown the door, so here we are. 👀 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Well that's war when you have superior firepower you're gonna get more kills. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago When Israel massacres civilians and massacres disproportionately, it then loses the peace. It also reveals its administration is too immature to deserve international support. The indiscriminate brutality of the IDF will reflect both on the the legitimacy of Israel and its allies, hence the conditions now added to US materiel support. I'm very glad you don't have any responsibility in this or any state affair. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Well that's war when you have superior firepower you're gonna get more kills. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago When Israel massacres civilians and massacres disproportionately, it then loses the peace. It also reveals its administration is too immature to deserve international support. The indiscriminate brutality of the IDF will reflect both on the the legitimacy of Israel and its allies, hence the conditions now added to US materiel support. I'm very glad you don't have any responsibility in this or any state affair. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago When Israel massacres civilians and massacres disproportionately, it then loses the peace. It also reveals its administration is too immature to deserve international support. The indiscriminate brutality of the IDF will reflect both on the the legitimacy of Israel and its allies, hence the conditions now added to US materiel support. I'm very glad you don't have any responsibility in this or any state affair. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago (3 children) ok but if they're hiding in a hospital you dont need to bomb it? or do anything to it? hiding is not hurting anyone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] rchive@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) For conflicts like this leadership that is planning attacks or otherwise leading forces that are doing attacking, simply existing anywhere outside a prison cell is threatening. Hamas leadership knows that, they're the ones putting hostpitals at risk by being there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) right, but my point is, however inconvenient it is, we always have a choice not to bomb hospitals. People take human shields, you don't have to shoot through the human shields. Do I have all the answers? No, but people go to school for war. Surely this has come up before at some point in the last 20,000 years? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] rchive@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago You certainly should do your best to not shoot through human shields, agreed. But can it still sometimes be better to shoot through human shields if that's what it takes to get very dangerous people vs letting them escape and threaten again later? I don't know, it's a hard question. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) hiding is not hurting anyone. The assholes in the hospital are still shooting at the assholes outside the hospital. Though I still agree the assholes outside shouldn't be bombing it just to get at the assholes inside. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 1 point 2 years ago we saw this in Bosnia and Rwanda, too. This is similar to Bosnia/Serbia/Yugoslavia in a lot of way (especially the siege of Saraievo). permalink fedilink source parent [–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago Depends. Are they artillery spotters. Are they leadership trying to claim to be in a safe you can't tag me zone. Did they just momentarily hide their guns too. Ya gotta secure that shit one way or another otherwise you'll get another massacre. There are no good answers permalink fedilink source parent
[–] rchive@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) For conflicts like this leadership that is planning attacks or otherwise leading forces that are doing attacking, simply existing anywhere outside a prison cell is threatening. Hamas leadership knows that, they're the ones putting hostpitals at risk by being there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) right, but my point is, however inconvenient it is, we always have a choice not to bomb hospitals. People take human shields, you don't have to shoot through the human shields. Do I have all the answers? No, but people go to school for war. Surely this has come up before at some point in the last 20,000 years? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] rchive@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago You certainly should do your best to not shoot through human shields, agreed. But can it still sometimes be better to shoot through human shields if that's what it takes to get very dangerous people vs letting them escape and threaten again later? I don't know, it's a hard question. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) right, but my point is, however inconvenient it is, we always have a choice not to bomb hospitals. People take human shields, you don't have to shoot through the human shields. Do I have all the answers? No, but people go to school for war. Surely this has come up before at some point in the last 20,000 years? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] rchive@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago You certainly should do your best to not shoot through human shields, agreed. But can it still sometimes be better to shoot through human shields if that's what it takes to get very dangerous people vs letting them escape and threaten again later? I don't know, it's a hard question. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] rchive@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago You certainly should do your best to not shoot through human shields, agreed. But can it still sometimes be better to shoot through human shields if that's what it takes to get very dangerous people vs letting them escape and threaten again later? I don't know, it's a hard question. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) hiding is not hurting anyone. The assholes in the hospital are still shooting at the assholes outside the hospital. Though I still agree the assholes outside shouldn't be bombing it just to get at the assholes inside. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 1 point 2 years ago we saw this in Bosnia and Rwanda, too. This is similar to Bosnia/Serbia/Yugoslavia in a lot of way (especially the siege of Saraievo). permalink fedilink source parent
[–] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 1 point 2 years ago we saw this in Bosnia and Rwanda, too. This is similar to Bosnia/Serbia/Yugoslavia in a lot of way (especially the siege of Saraievo). permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago Depends. Are they artillery spotters. Are they leadership trying to claim to be in a safe you can't tag me zone. Did they just momentarily hide their guns too. Ya gotta secure that shit one way or another otherwise you'll get another massacre. There are no good answers permalink fedilink source parent