this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2023
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United States | News & Politics
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Progressives need to leave this dog shit party.
What we need to do is get rid of FPTP, because so long as that's how the system works breaking away will only guarantee that the fascists win permanently.
Genocide is happening under the non-fascist party. What's the fucking point?
I think the sad fact is many people in the US are okay with financing genocide as long as they don't have to hear Trump's name or suffer any consequences personally. As long as some kind of right wing boogeymany exists, you can convince most democratic voters that genocide is permissable enough to not disqualify a candidate.
I think the sad thing is people thinking that if it were Trump instead of Biden right now, there wouldn't be any genocide. When in fact trump would be supporting genocide both in Gaza and in Ukraine.
So how much genocide in your opinion is okay to vote for under the suspicion that someone else might also do a genocide?
Because either you're admitting theres no way to vote ourselves out of genocide or that joes genocides is okay because someone else MAY also preside over genocide. Thats a new one, this genocide is acceptable because if it wasn't this, it would just be another genocide, do I have that right?
Im of the opinion that I cannot materially support genocide. Call it single issue voterism if you want but to me never again means never again, not never again unless maybe the someone else would also finance genocide. Having boundaries is healthy and just, and if genocide is only a soft boundary for someone then I place no value in what they have to say.
Is your intent to refuse to vote in the next election?
I dont believe voting does much, but I know refusing to vote doesn't do anything, I don't see why I wouldn't show up.
In FPTP a non-vote is still a vote. I am consistently astonished at Lemmy being unable to understand this simple concept.
We'd still get genocide regardless of who the president is. The killing machine operates the same no matter who pulls the levers.
I won't vote for genocide.
Well yeah but that's a lot different than what the guy I replied to said
No it's not.
Their point was that liberals are okay with genocide under Democrats, but if Trump was president they'd be against it. No one thinks that, if Trump were president, there wouldn't be a genocide. The genocide is non negotiable.
Do you prefer
or
Both parties are similarly shitty on some things, but are pretty different on other issues. Are you really indifferent to all the issues they differ on?
When faced with two options that are both genocide why buy into a false dicthomy, also need I remind you abortion became a states right issue (something biden could have prevented) under bidens presidency?
The stupidest move is to play.
You're oversimplifying.
Under Trump, Democrats would oppose genocide. I guarantee if Trump was president the Democrats would be fighting against him.
Under Biden, even Bernie is falling in line. It's disgusting.
But would you rather have the bad guys do genocide or the good guys do genocide?
🤔
They're there to sheepdog the voters into believing progressive candidates a valued part of the democratic party despite the fact that more than most of the good things progressives have accomplished are entirely outside of the chambers of congress. The democrats refuse to work with progressives unless they are forced too, like that time the progressives asked Pelosi to consider stock trading bans and she denied them until it was clear that was horrible PR, then decided to around to vocally supporting it later, once the political will to pass the bill was dying down. Progressives are there for show.
Yeah, Bernie is demonstrating this by refusing to endorse a ceasefire.
That's not even remotely accurate and you know it lol
Where's the lie?
I think he endorsed a ceasefire but then immediately expressed he didn't think Hamas would respect a ceasefire.
So one step forward, one step back. Not much better. Not great. But I dont expect the over 70 crowd to navigate these waters very well.
Fetterman is the far more disappointing Senator on this topic.
I'm willing to bet that he'd navigate these waters just fine if Trump was president.
That's what Trump does. He sharpens the contradictions and makes it obvious to everyone. Biden does everything possible to muddy the waters and make the issue seem more complicated than it actually is, but Trump never bothers masking his intentions like that.
Maybe so. Though the reality isn't that Trump is president.
And I am not sure anyone knows for sure how a 2nd term Trump would be acting right now. I mean hell, Trump kind of criticized Israel and said Hezbollah was making a smart move recently, so hey, wild card factor would be without much masking.
Not sure I'd have much expection for the geriatric leaders regardless of president, still.
I'm almost certain Trump criticized Netanyahu because Biden supports him lol
You know that is plausible, but it could also be Trump has a personal issue with Netanyahu, which also tracks for him, if not more so.
They already did. Though they absolutely 100% need to stop voting for that dogshit party as well.
Ah yes, insurrectionist part II electric boogaloo.
The choices on the table are dogshit or arsonic, but if you don’t choose you're still going to have to eat one of them.
In order to avoid eating either, we should probably focus on getting the one off the table that will fucking kill you.
Just don't eat either of them? It's not hard. You simply go eat something else and ridicule people who are eating the dogshit.
The fuck are you going to do? Buy a submarine and live like captain goddamn nemo?
That would be cool. But no I'm just not going to eat dog shit. Millions of other foods, and hundreds of other candidates, I don't get any bonus points by voting for the winner. It's literally the least you can do.
Biden is the president whether or not you individually voted for him. You're figuratively eating dogshit right now. Be glad it isn't arsonic.
This is the type of message needed to inspire good democrat turnout