this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2023
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Pressure grows on Apple to open up iMessage::Samsung has joined Google’s campaign to force Apple to make iMessage RCS-compatible—but European regulators are more likely to get that job done.

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[–] [email protected] 155 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

This is weirdly only a thing in America. In Europe, where I live, iMessage isn’t that popular and iPhone users never seem to care about the bubble colour (likely because WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal, Element, and Threema are so popular, everyone is used to using multiple chat apps anyway).

Edit: Also I’m not sure why everyone is championing RCS - it’s yet another proprietary communication standard like iMessage and isn’t open thus can’t be easily implemented in other chat apps.

Rather then pressure Apple to support and further popularise another closed protocol, we should be pushing for something open like Matrix or Signal.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago (2 children)

: Also I’m not sure why everyone is championing RCS - it’s yet another proprietary communication standard like iMessage and isn’t open thus can’t be easily implemented in other chat apps.

RCS is an implementation of GSMA Universal Profile and is interoperable with it

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don’t see any public license for GSMA Universal Profile and it seems you have to engage directly with GSMA to get any detail on the standard. Very much the opposite of things like Signal which not only are the standards public but so are the reference implementations.

I still don’t see an argument for why yet another proprietary standard and protocol is a good thing.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

well RCS is to be the successor to SMS, which I believe was also introduced by GSMA

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What you are using on Android isn’t RCS, it’s RCS+Google’s proprietary extension. There is no encryption in the spec, and the original implementation that went through carriers is ignored and it goes through Google. It’s essentially Google’s iMessage and they are trying to find their way into breaking Apple’s market share under false pretense.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I’ve just been reading the RCS Universal Profile Service Definition Document and it does stipulate encryption should be used but it is hardly defined how encryption should be implemented nor does it set an interoperable standard for it. I like RCS even less now.

Methods for encryption, client verification, user authentication and access authorisation are applied by the client and the network on a per interface and protocol basis.

So basically RCS is happy for there to be interoperability with regards to encryption, almost forcing interoperable implementations to forgo encryption so that different implementations can communicate.

Signal protocol is far far far better a standard than this lazy “service definition”.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yea, the standard is great for a decade+ ago when it came out, but I’d never trust it as is over other things like Signal or even iMessage. Google’s RCS implementation is as trustworthy as anything else Google makes. They don’t even support it across all their products last I heard. It’s a joke.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Not to mention, you will get bored of it in two or three years and kill it off.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I know, but isn't the point that Google Messages is interoperable with other implementations such as T-Mobile's or Verizon's?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

That may be the point, but it’s not working out that way. The spec is older than iMessage. It failed. Google just took it and made their own implementation. I’m not sure if Google’s RCS works with Verizon’s for example, I’m sure basic things do. AFAIK third party developers can’t implement it in their apps, so you have to have an Android phone to use it. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. The entire thing relies on Google to keep it running.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

RCS is still IP based so why SMS should be replaced with RCS over Signal still isn’t clear. RCS and Signal are both IP based protocols yet one is proprietary and the other is libre. If we’re getting rid of SMS, we should be replacing it with something anyone can implement without any concerns for licensing or the standard being controlled by a single entity (which Google seems to be positioning themselves to be).

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

It is controlled and monetizable by the telcos. It isn’t better. And it’s barely standardized. Google sells a service to telcos to implement RCS that doesn’t really work well with anyone else’s RCS, or didn’t.

Go look at the amount of threads with people saying “my RCS message from my Samsung didn’t get to my friend on T-Mobile with a pixel”.

This is not the future anyone deserves.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I have never heard of anyone in the U.S. who cares about the bubble color either. The only reason I ever cared was that it used to mean there was a good chance it wouldn't get through if it was a green bubble, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. I've gotten iPhone-to-iPhone green bubbles when there's been some sort of communication difficulty to Apple's servers and it had to go straight SMS.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Are you dating or in school at the moment? I if not, it might be that you’re just oblivious to this trend, because it is definitely a thing in many social circles.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Seeems mostly a US centric thing though. I've never experienced this, 99% of people here with smartphones have whatsapp/telegram and use that almost exclusively, even iphone users.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

No one said it wasn’t, but US is the largest and most affluent market and therefore the only one that matters. /s

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I haven't encountered any adults who actually care about that in one-on-one conversations. I have however been excluded from group chats because mixing iMessage and SMS users resulted in a degraded experience. The iPhone users were, of course unwilling to consider installing any other chat app.

I find the last bit pretty annoying. It takes about 45 seconds to download Signal and confirm your number.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I just had that conversation with a group of adults who all had iPhones and were unwilling to add non-iPhone people to a group or change messaging apps.

The reasons given were:

  • My iPhone is too old, I can't install another messaging app.
  • I'm not going to install another app where I have to remember another password.
  • Messages don't go through when we add a non-iPhone user to the group.

The conclusion by the group was "just buy an iPhone!"

And that's a group of adults. I can't imagine the bullying and peer pressure teenagers have to face over something as idiotic as messaging apps.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Meanwhile, I have six messaging apps on my phone (which is neither new nor high-end) and would be willing to install most others (not Facebook chat or Instagram) if it made communication easier for someone.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I have to say that in Denmark at least, iMessage seems to thrive quite well. There are quite a lot using Facebook messenger, but SMS and iMessage is a close second. This is entirely from my point of view. Never met anyone using the examples you mention, unless they are communicating with foreigners on a daily basis.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

In finland everyone I know uses WhatsApp, and my friend circle and family also use Signal. So, eh.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

It's popular in Sweden too

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Also I’m not sure why everyone is championing RCS - it’s yet another proprietary communication standard like iMessage and isn’t open thus can’t be easily implemented in other chat apps.

My guy, this entire article is about Google and Samsung trying to convince Apple to adopt RCS.

Is a completely open standard better? Yeah, absolutely.

Would RCS basically create unified rich communication for virtually everyone? Also yes.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

RCS isn’t open at all in practice and anyone who wants to put the carriers (or more likely Google) in control of messaging is a moron.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Nobody wants to do that, except that the alternative is SMS, which is much much worse.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

It is proprietary but at least it will interoperable with other phones and carriers.