▲ 1492 ▼ Opinion - What are your thoughts on password managers? Do you use one? Would you recommend it to others? (lemmy.ca) submitted 3 years ago by Kagathara@lemmy.ca to c/android@lemmy.world 1033 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] Monologue@lemmy.zip 67 points 3 years ago (3 children) yup randomly generated 20+ digit passwords are the way to go permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Zectivi@lemmy.world 91 points 3 years ago* (5 children) Same, just gotta watch out for sites that don't support it and don't tell you that they don't. I got into a password reset loop with a site once, until I realized it was truncating my 20 character password to their supported max of 16. They never said the max was 16, and never game an error that 20 wasn't allowed. Just simply an asshole design. I probably could check bitwarden for whatever password I changed the most and see if it's still an issue with the site. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] butternuts@lemmy.world 34 points 3 years ago I consider this lazy programming. I've had it happen a few times but luckily it has been rare for me. permalink fedilink source parent [–] actually_a_tomato@lemm.ee 14 points 3 years ago That sounds infuriating permalink fedilink source parent [–] AbidanYre@lemmy.world 7 points 3 years ago Reddit used to do that but silently truncated at 20. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Sterben@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago I usually generate 16 characters password for this reason. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Trexman@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] narshok@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago (3 children) Is there a legitimate reason to use 20 characters over 16? Genuinely asking. Bitwarden considers them both "strong", taking centuries to crack. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Siors@lemmy.world 11 points 3 years ago (1 child) Well the more characters you have the higher the entropy of the password and the harder it would be to crack. So when you don't have to remember the password yourself there's no reason not to use a very long password if the service you're using allows it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Coreidan@lemmy.world 10 points 3 years ago (1 child) Except no one cracks passwords. Vast majority of hacks is through social networking and trojans. The days of password cracking are long over especially considering most services lock you out after several failed attempts. The main argument for using a password manager is so you can have a different password for every service. This way if they manage to obtain one password they can’t access everything. It also makes rotating passwords a lot easier so that way you’re not using the same password forever. If your password gets out hopefully it’s changed before they use it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 4 points 3 years ago Offline password cracking is still very much a thing. They steal the entire password database then crack it offline at their leisure, not live against the regular login. Several measures are required to defend against this: Hash seeds defend against rainbow tables. Password length & complexity as well as using computationally-intensive hash algorithms defend against the brute-force cracking. Password managers help with length and complexity, sad well as promote not reusing passwords. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Bazoogle@lemmy.world 6 points 3 years ago (1 child) There's realistically no reason not to generate the max password. The different in possibilities between a password with 16 characters and one with 20 (using a-zA-Z0-9!@#$%^&*()?-+." which isn't even all the options) is 1.2E30 v s 4.13E37. That's seven orders of magnitude from 4 characters. The difference between $1 and $10,000,000. But to be fair, 1.2E30 possible combinations is kind of a lot already, but why not add a few more characters just for the hell of it? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] StudioLE@programming.dev -1 points 3 years ago (1 child) If you always use the maximum then the length of your password becomes predictable which reduces the number of permutations. It's probably better to use a password of around 60-100% of the maximum permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bazoogle@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago I mean, that's true. And that's usually the case since I typically use a slider. But if you password is 100 characters, numbers, and symbols, I don't think telling them the exact length is going to help much. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Monologue@lemmy.zip 4 points 3 years ago i mean i got the option and i don't need to actually remember it so why not? permalink fedilink source parent [–] nocturne213@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) When possible I use passphrases with numbers added. Sadly my bank has a 16 character limit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] zdrvr@lemm.ee 10 points 3 years ago (1 child) Time for a new bank. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jasonwaterfalls@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago (1 child) Why? Do you know how long it takes to crack a 16 character password? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Coreidan@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) Password cracking isn’t really a thing anymore. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jasonwaterfalls@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You're telling me nobody uses brute force attacks anymore? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Coreidan@lemmy.world -3 points 3 years ago Nope. Most services lock you out after 3 failed password attempts for 10-15 minutes. Password cracking would take centuries at that rate. It worked in the 90s when you could pound the severs for hours/days before even being noticed. Now you’ll just get auto IP banned. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Zectivi@lemmy.world 91 points 3 years ago* (5 children) Same, just gotta watch out for sites that don't support it and don't tell you that they don't. I got into a password reset loop with a site once, until I realized it was truncating my 20 character password to their supported max of 16. They never said the max was 16, and never game an error that 20 wasn't allowed. Just simply an asshole design. I probably could check bitwarden for whatever password I changed the most and see if it's still an issue with the site. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] butternuts@lemmy.world 34 points 3 years ago I consider this lazy programming. I've had it happen a few times but luckily it has been rare for me. permalink fedilink source parent [–] actually_a_tomato@lemm.ee 14 points 3 years ago That sounds infuriating permalink fedilink source parent [–] AbidanYre@lemmy.world 7 points 3 years ago Reddit used to do that but silently truncated at 20. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Sterben@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago I usually generate 16 characters password for this reason. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Trexman@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] butternuts@lemmy.world 34 points 3 years ago I consider this lazy programming. I've had it happen a few times but luckily it has been rare for me. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] actually_a_tomato@lemm.ee 14 points 3 years ago That sounds infuriating permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AbidanYre@lemmy.world 7 points 3 years ago Reddit used to do that but silently truncated at 20. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Sterben@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago I usually generate 16 characters password for this reason. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Trexman@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] narshok@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago (3 children) Is there a legitimate reason to use 20 characters over 16? Genuinely asking. Bitwarden considers them both "strong", taking centuries to crack. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Siors@lemmy.world 11 points 3 years ago (1 child) Well the more characters you have the higher the entropy of the password and the harder it would be to crack. So when you don't have to remember the password yourself there's no reason not to use a very long password if the service you're using allows it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Coreidan@lemmy.world 10 points 3 years ago (1 child) Except no one cracks passwords. Vast majority of hacks is through social networking and trojans. The days of password cracking are long over especially considering most services lock you out after several failed attempts. The main argument for using a password manager is so you can have a different password for every service. This way if they manage to obtain one password they can’t access everything. It also makes rotating passwords a lot easier so that way you’re not using the same password forever. If your password gets out hopefully it’s changed before they use it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 4 points 3 years ago Offline password cracking is still very much a thing. They steal the entire password database then crack it offline at their leisure, not live against the regular login. Several measures are required to defend against this: Hash seeds defend against rainbow tables. Password length & complexity as well as using computationally-intensive hash algorithms defend against the brute-force cracking. Password managers help with length and complexity, sad well as promote not reusing passwords. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Bazoogle@lemmy.world 6 points 3 years ago (1 child) There's realistically no reason not to generate the max password. The different in possibilities between a password with 16 characters and one with 20 (using a-zA-Z0-9!@#$%^&*()?-+." which isn't even all the options) is 1.2E30 v s 4.13E37. That's seven orders of magnitude from 4 characters. The difference between $1 and $10,000,000. But to be fair, 1.2E30 possible combinations is kind of a lot already, but why not add a few more characters just for the hell of it? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] StudioLE@programming.dev -1 points 3 years ago (1 child) If you always use the maximum then the length of your password becomes predictable which reduces the number of permutations. It's probably better to use a password of around 60-100% of the maximum permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bazoogle@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago I mean, that's true. And that's usually the case since I typically use a slider. But if you password is 100 characters, numbers, and symbols, I don't think telling them the exact length is going to help much. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Monologue@lemmy.zip 4 points 3 years ago i mean i got the option and i don't need to actually remember it so why not? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Siors@lemmy.world 11 points 3 years ago (1 child) Well the more characters you have the higher the entropy of the password and the harder it would be to crack. So when you don't have to remember the password yourself there's no reason not to use a very long password if the service you're using allows it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Coreidan@lemmy.world 10 points 3 years ago (1 child) Except no one cracks passwords. Vast majority of hacks is through social networking and trojans. The days of password cracking are long over especially considering most services lock you out after several failed attempts. The main argument for using a password manager is so you can have a different password for every service. This way if they manage to obtain one password they can’t access everything. It also makes rotating passwords a lot easier so that way you’re not using the same password forever. If your password gets out hopefully it’s changed before they use it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 4 points 3 years ago Offline password cracking is still very much a thing. They steal the entire password database then crack it offline at their leisure, not live against the regular login. Several measures are required to defend against this: Hash seeds defend against rainbow tables. Password length & complexity as well as using computationally-intensive hash algorithms defend against the brute-force cracking. Password managers help with length and complexity, sad well as promote not reusing passwords. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Coreidan@lemmy.world 10 points 3 years ago (1 child) Except no one cracks passwords. Vast majority of hacks is through social networking and trojans. The days of password cracking are long over especially considering most services lock you out after several failed attempts. The main argument for using a password manager is so you can have a different password for every service. This way if they manage to obtain one password they can’t access everything. It also makes rotating passwords a lot easier so that way you’re not using the same password forever. If your password gets out hopefully it’s changed before they use it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 4 points 3 years ago Offline password cracking is still very much a thing. They steal the entire password database then crack it offline at their leisure, not live against the regular login. Several measures are required to defend against this: Hash seeds defend against rainbow tables. Password length & complexity as well as using computationally-intensive hash algorithms defend against the brute-force cracking. Password managers help with length and complexity, sad well as promote not reusing passwords. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 4 points 3 years ago Offline password cracking is still very much a thing. They steal the entire password database then crack it offline at their leisure, not live against the regular login. Several measures are required to defend against this: Hash seeds defend against rainbow tables. Password length & complexity as well as using computationally-intensive hash algorithms defend against the brute-force cracking. Password managers help with length and complexity, sad well as promote not reusing passwords. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Bazoogle@lemmy.world 6 points 3 years ago (1 child) There's realistically no reason not to generate the max password. The different in possibilities between a password with 16 characters and one with 20 (using a-zA-Z0-9!@#$%^&*()?-+." which isn't even all the options) is 1.2E30 v s 4.13E37. That's seven orders of magnitude from 4 characters. The difference between $1 and $10,000,000. But to be fair, 1.2E30 possible combinations is kind of a lot already, but why not add a few more characters just for the hell of it? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] StudioLE@programming.dev -1 points 3 years ago (1 child) If you always use the maximum then the length of your password becomes predictable which reduces the number of permutations. It's probably better to use a password of around 60-100% of the maximum permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bazoogle@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago I mean, that's true. And that's usually the case since I typically use a slider. But if you password is 100 characters, numbers, and symbols, I don't think telling them the exact length is going to help much. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] StudioLE@programming.dev -1 points 3 years ago (1 child) If you always use the maximum then the length of your password becomes predictable which reduces the number of permutations. It's probably better to use a password of around 60-100% of the maximum permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bazoogle@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago I mean, that's true. And that's usually the case since I typically use a slider. But if you password is 100 characters, numbers, and symbols, I don't think telling them the exact length is going to help much. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Bazoogle@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago I mean, that's true. And that's usually the case since I typically use a slider. But if you password is 100 characters, numbers, and symbols, I don't think telling them the exact length is going to help much. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Monologue@lemmy.zip 4 points 3 years ago i mean i got the option and i don't need to actually remember it so why not? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] nocturne213@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) When possible I use passphrases with numbers added. Sadly my bank has a 16 character limit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] zdrvr@lemm.ee 10 points 3 years ago (1 child) Time for a new bank. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jasonwaterfalls@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago (1 child) Why? Do you know how long it takes to crack a 16 character password? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Coreidan@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) Password cracking isn’t really a thing anymore. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jasonwaterfalls@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You're telling me nobody uses brute force attacks anymore? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Coreidan@lemmy.world -3 points 3 years ago Nope. Most services lock you out after 3 failed password attempts for 10-15 minutes. Password cracking would take centuries at that rate. It worked in the 90s when you could pound the severs for hours/days before even being noticed. Now you’ll just get auto IP banned. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] zdrvr@lemm.ee 10 points 3 years ago (1 child) Time for a new bank. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jasonwaterfalls@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago (1 child) Why? Do you know how long it takes to crack a 16 character password? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Coreidan@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) Password cracking isn’t really a thing anymore. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jasonwaterfalls@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You're telling me nobody uses brute force attacks anymore? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Coreidan@lemmy.world -3 points 3 years ago Nope. Most services lock you out after 3 failed password attempts for 10-15 minutes. Password cracking would take centuries at that rate. It worked in the 90s when you could pound the severs for hours/days before even being noticed. Now you’ll just get auto IP banned. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] jasonwaterfalls@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago (1 child) Why? Do you know how long it takes to crack a 16 character password? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Coreidan@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) Password cracking isn’t really a thing anymore. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jasonwaterfalls@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You're telling me nobody uses brute force attacks anymore? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Coreidan@lemmy.world -3 points 3 years ago Nope. Most services lock you out after 3 failed password attempts for 10-15 minutes. Password cracking would take centuries at that rate. It worked in the 90s when you could pound the severs for hours/days before even being noticed. Now you’ll just get auto IP banned. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Coreidan@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) Password cracking isn’t really a thing anymore. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jasonwaterfalls@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You're telling me nobody uses brute force attacks anymore? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Coreidan@lemmy.world -3 points 3 years ago Nope. Most services lock you out after 3 failed password attempts for 10-15 minutes. Password cracking would take centuries at that rate. It worked in the 90s when you could pound the severs for hours/days before even being noticed. Now you’ll just get auto IP banned. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] jasonwaterfalls@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You're telling me nobody uses brute force attacks anymore? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Coreidan@lemmy.world -3 points 3 years ago Nope. Most services lock you out after 3 failed password attempts for 10-15 minutes. Password cracking would take centuries at that rate. It worked in the 90s when you could pound the severs for hours/days before even being noticed. Now you’ll just get auto IP banned. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Coreidan@lemmy.world -3 points 3 years ago Nope. Most services lock you out after 3 failed password attempts for 10-15 minutes. Password cracking would take centuries at that rate. It worked in the 90s when you could pound the severs for hours/days before even being noticed. Now you’ll just get auto IP banned. permalink fedilink source parent
