▲ 435 ▼ Israel announces 'total' blockade on Gaza (www.aljazeera.com) submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by tryptaminev@feddit.de to c/world@lemmy.world 294 comments fedilink hide all child comments Edited title to match articles title.
[–] sun_is_ra@sh.itjust.works 80 points 2 years ago (6 children) So they will kill all people in Gaza? permalink fedilink source hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] nocturne213@lemm.ee 81 points 2 years ago (1 child) I always thought that is what Israel wanted anyway. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Shardikprime@lemmy.world -8 points 2 years ago (3 children) Hamas sets up military operations in a civilian building by force - the civilians have no say in this and get killed if they protest Hamas then uses that building to launch rockets, store ammunition, communication stations How the fuck should Israel proceed to neutralize those sites? Because what they do is: “Roof knocking”: Hitting the building’s roof with a small explosive to announce that it will fall in 15 minutes (see video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teevWpXlRZY example from yesterday) Automatic SMS and phone calls impacted areas warning and urging to evacuate Precision strikes that make the building fall vertically with minimal damage to the areas As a result, civilians (and potentially military personnel) are given a chance to evacuate while ammunition stashes, rocket launching stations etc stay in the building and are destroyed. To be honest, I’m shocked those protocols are still used after Hamas’s attack. I would absolutely not be surprised of these measures stopped. The anti-Israel don’t care that Israel is bending over backwards to minimize human suffering while fighting a decades long war against people who are deliberately trying to kill their children. Remember how upset they are when Israel does something 100 percent defensive, like build a security fence to keep out an endless stream of suicide bombers? This isn’t good-faith criticism. These people hate Israel for this that they works be applauding other countries for. And we all know why permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] bdonvr 7 points 2 years ago* (1 child) "They're wrecking homes and destroying infrastructure, but at least they're nice about it!" Israel is in the wrong because they're settler colonialists who stole the land from Palestinians. There is no defensive acts, continued occupation and protection of their occupation is an offensive act. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Anduin1357@lemmy.world -15 points 2 years ago (1 child) This kind of attitude just means more conflict because Israel is never going to leave that land. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] whogivesashit@lemmygrad.ml 1 point 2 years ago If you've read the news lately you might notice that several just did. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks [B] 2 points 2 years ago Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://www.piped.video/watch?v=teevWpXlRZY Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube. I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub. permalink fedilink source parent [–] BradleyUffner@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) How the fuck should Israel proceed to neutralize those sites? Send in ground forces that can separate fighters from civilians in a way that leveling a building and killing everyone inside cannot. Hitting the building’s roof with a small explosive to announce that it will fall in 15 minutes So saying "attention, we will destroy your home, all your possessions, and your livelihood in 15 minutes", before doing exactly that to Innocent people makes them the good guys? I don't think so. Update It looks like they don't even knock any more. permalink fedilink source parent [–] roo@lemmy.one 47 points 2 years ago (1 child) So, it's an unattended concentration camp, and they hope everyone dies there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 72 points 2 years ago (1 child) Has been for decades... It's over 2 million in like 140 sq miles... They don't have their own police, don't get to vote (Israel won't let them have an election), aren't in control of their own utilities, don't have freedom of movement, and get treated as subhuman. And Israel wants everyone to believe there's no reason for Palestinians to hate Israel's government. Put people in those conditions and refuse to treat them as humans, and some of them are going to stop acting like humans. It's basically sociology and would happen to any population in those conditions permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SCB@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago* Hamas is who does not allow further elections in Gaza. Following the Fatah–Hamas conflict that started in 2006, Hamas formed a government ruling the Gaza Strip without elections. Gazan Prime Minister Haniyye announced in September 2012 the formation of a second Hamas government, also without elections. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Palestine permalink fedilink source parent [–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 25 points 2 years ago If history's taught us anything, it's that the good guys always indiscriminately target civilians! permalink fedilink source parent [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 17 points 2 years ago (1 child) Well, killing some and hope the rest will try to flee to Egypt at which point Gaza is free for the taking. Or well, maybe, they hope that in desperation people will try to rush the blockade, at which point they just kill them. Hamas awful actions have given Israel plenty of ammunition to keep everyone else on the world stage away for a while, no matter what they do now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago (3 children) Hamas awful actions Didn't happen in a vacuum... There's reasons people are willing to die in a war they have no chance of winning. It's stand up for your people or watch them essentially be tortured slowly to death. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 21 points 2 years ago (1 child) I mean, at the same time I can't support mass rape. Or rape in general. Also not a fan of carrying around naked corpses of multilated people. Not a fan. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) You think every Palestinian is doing that? That's the main use of propaganda, take some isolated incidents that really did happen nd really are inexcusable, and amplify the shit out of that so people think the whole side is doing that. The militaries of both sides are doing awful shit, but only one side has the power to enforce peace. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 15 points 2 years ago (1 child) You think every Palestinian is doing that? Which part of "Hamas awful actions" made you think that I extend this to all Palestinians? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] givesomefucks@lemmy.world -10 points 2 years ago (1 child) I mean, at the same time I can’t support mass rape. Or rape in general If the actions of a few are enough for you not to support Palestinians... Then yeah, you're extending that to all Palestinians. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 17 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Why do I need to support mass rape to support the Palestinian peoples right to a state and a free life? At what point is mass rape necessary for that? Rape is wrong and I stand by that in what appears to be a surprisingly controversial move. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] givesomefucks@lemmy.world -9 points 2 years ago (1 child) You don't... No one said you had to, even suggested you should... But when you take the actions of a few and blame an entire population for the actions of those few... That's bigotry. That's no different than seeing a gay child abuser and claiming all gay people abuse children, or seeing a Black drug dealer and saying all Black people are now drug dealers. Hell, I'm American and was in the military. American military members rape other American military members at a truly disturbing rate. Does that mean I'm guilty because I belong to the same population? To take it even further, do you blame those victims as well? Do you legitimately not understand? Because I'm starting to have doubts on your sincerity permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 11 points 2 years ago I don't know why you keep insisting that I disavow all Palestinians. That deep into the thread I don't know if you're willfully ignorant just to score some points against someone that isn't me. To spell it out again: I think rape is bad. I think that Palestina should be a state. If that's somehow incompatible to you, you need to check yourself. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) It’s stand up for your people or watch them essentially be tortured slowly to death. There is another option. Negotiate a viable peace, which they have refused to do repeatedly. Palestine is essentially a defeated state that refuses to acknowledge its loss or make concessions. The only victory condition they are willing to entertain is not viable and their insistence on fighting an unwinnable war, often via guerilla attacks and terrorism, will not end well for them. [Hamas's charter,] article 13, "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Gaza's last election was 17 years ago... And Israel both refuses to recognize Hamas as a government, but also refuses to help Gaza hold an election. They won't negotiate with Gaza, which because it was separated from the West Bank by Israel is essentially it's own government. It's pretty classic "divide and conquer". And before you say "Israel shouldn't be involved" then why are they in charge of pretty much every other facet of Gaza? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago Wikipedia says Palestinian presidential elections were indefinitely postponed by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas due to a Hamas-Fatah schism: The elections took place amid a tense atmosphere between Fatah and Hamas over the postponement of more major elections that were also scheduled for 2021. It was also reported that voters were angry with the postponement of the presidential election and the legislative election by President Mahmoud Abbas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021%E2%80%9322_Palestinian_local_elections Israel both refuses to recognize Hamas as a government, but also refuses to help Gaza hold an election. ... And before you say “Israel shouldn’t be involved” then why are they in charge of pretty much every other facet of Gaza? Because they are an adjacent hostile terrorist state, dedicated to their destruction, that they want to contain via leverage? permalink fedilink source parent [–] eatthecake@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Raping women is standing up for palestinians is it? How exactly have the actions of hamas helped the palestinian people? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) You can just scroll down and read the rest of the comment chain. I'll even quote the first for free You think every Palestinian is doing that? That’s the main use of propaganda, take some isolated incidents that really did happen nd really are inexcusable, and amplify the shit out of that so people think the whole side is doing that. The militaries of both sides are doing awful shit, but only one side has the power to enforce peace. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] eatthecake@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago You said hamas awful actions didnt happen in a vacuum and that they are standing up for their people. You are justifying mass rape as a war tactic. There is plenty criticize israel for but justifying the torture of civillians is appalling. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Pohl@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent [–] MeanEYE@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) No, and that was never the plan. Had it been Israel has far more efficient ways of doing it. The goal is to put the pressure on Hamas, two million people worth of pressure. You can claim you are fighting for freedom until stomachs start grumbling. Then Israel hopes Palestinians will turn on Hamas and the whole thing will be over or at least at a different stage where something can be done without wiping the whole place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] davepleasebehave@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago naive permalink fedilink source parent
[–] nocturne213@lemm.ee 81 points 2 years ago (1 child) I always thought that is what Israel wanted anyway. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Shardikprime@lemmy.world -8 points 2 years ago (3 children) Hamas sets up military operations in a civilian building by force - the civilians have no say in this and get killed if they protest Hamas then uses that building to launch rockets, store ammunition, communication stations How the fuck should Israel proceed to neutralize those sites? Because what they do is: “Roof knocking”: Hitting the building’s roof with a small explosive to announce that it will fall in 15 minutes (see video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teevWpXlRZY example from yesterday) Automatic SMS and phone calls impacted areas warning and urging to evacuate Precision strikes that make the building fall vertically with minimal damage to the areas As a result, civilians (and potentially military personnel) are given a chance to evacuate while ammunition stashes, rocket launching stations etc stay in the building and are destroyed. To be honest, I’m shocked those protocols are still used after Hamas’s attack. I would absolutely not be surprised of these measures stopped. The anti-Israel don’t care that Israel is bending over backwards to minimize human suffering while fighting a decades long war against people who are deliberately trying to kill their children. Remember how upset they are when Israel does something 100 percent defensive, like build a security fence to keep out an endless stream of suicide bombers? This isn’t good-faith criticism. These people hate Israel for this that they works be applauding other countries for. And we all know why permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] bdonvr 7 points 2 years ago* (1 child) "They're wrecking homes and destroying infrastructure, but at least they're nice about it!" Israel is in the wrong because they're settler colonialists who stole the land from Palestinians. There is no defensive acts, continued occupation and protection of their occupation is an offensive act. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Anduin1357@lemmy.world -15 points 2 years ago (1 child) This kind of attitude just means more conflict because Israel is never going to leave that land. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] whogivesashit@lemmygrad.ml 1 point 2 years ago If you've read the news lately you might notice that several just did. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks [B] 2 points 2 years ago Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://www.piped.video/watch?v=teevWpXlRZY Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube. I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub. permalink fedilink source parent [–] BradleyUffner@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) How the fuck should Israel proceed to neutralize those sites? Send in ground forces that can separate fighters from civilians in a way that leveling a building and killing everyone inside cannot. Hitting the building’s roof with a small explosive to announce that it will fall in 15 minutes So saying "attention, we will destroy your home, all your possessions, and your livelihood in 15 minutes", before doing exactly that to Innocent people makes them the good guys? I don't think so. Update It looks like they don't even knock any more. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Shardikprime@lemmy.world -8 points 2 years ago (3 children) Hamas sets up military operations in a civilian building by force - the civilians have no say in this and get killed if they protest Hamas then uses that building to launch rockets, store ammunition, communication stations How the fuck should Israel proceed to neutralize those sites? Because what they do is: “Roof knocking”: Hitting the building’s roof with a small explosive to announce that it will fall in 15 minutes (see video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teevWpXlRZY example from yesterday) Automatic SMS and phone calls impacted areas warning and urging to evacuate Precision strikes that make the building fall vertically with minimal damage to the areas As a result, civilians (and potentially military personnel) are given a chance to evacuate while ammunition stashes, rocket launching stations etc stay in the building and are destroyed. To be honest, I’m shocked those protocols are still used after Hamas’s attack. I would absolutely not be surprised of these measures stopped. The anti-Israel don’t care that Israel is bending over backwards to minimize human suffering while fighting a decades long war against people who are deliberately trying to kill their children. Remember how upset they are when Israel does something 100 percent defensive, like build a security fence to keep out an endless stream of suicide bombers? This isn’t good-faith criticism. These people hate Israel for this that they works be applauding other countries for. And we all know why permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] bdonvr 7 points 2 years ago* (1 child) "They're wrecking homes and destroying infrastructure, but at least they're nice about it!" Israel is in the wrong because they're settler colonialists who stole the land from Palestinians. There is no defensive acts, continued occupation and protection of their occupation is an offensive act. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Anduin1357@lemmy.world -15 points 2 years ago (1 child) This kind of attitude just means more conflict because Israel is never going to leave that land. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] whogivesashit@lemmygrad.ml 1 point 2 years ago If you've read the news lately you might notice that several just did. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks [B] 2 points 2 years ago Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://www.piped.video/watch?v=teevWpXlRZY Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube. I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub. permalink fedilink source parent [–] BradleyUffner@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) How the fuck should Israel proceed to neutralize those sites? Send in ground forces that can separate fighters from civilians in a way that leveling a building and killing everyone inside cannot. Hitting the building’s roof with a small explosive to announce that it will fall in 15 minutes So saying "attention, we will destroy your home, all your possessions, and your livelihood in 15 minutes", before doing exactly that to Innocent people makes them the good guys? I don't think so. Update It looks like they don't even knock any more. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bdonvr 7 points 2 years ago* (1 child) "They're wrecking homes and destroying infrastructure, but at least they're nice about it!" Israel is in the wrong because they're settler colonialists who stole the land from Palestinians. There is no defensive acts, continued occupation and protection of their occupation is an offensive act. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Anduin1357@lemmy.world -15 points 2 years ago (1 child) This kind of attitude just means more conflict because Israel is never going to leave that land. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] whogivesashit@lemmygrad.ml 1 point 2 years ago If you've read the news lately you might notice that several just did. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Anduin1357@lemmy.world -15 points 2 years ago (1 child) This kind of attitude just means more conflict because Israel is never going to leave that land. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] whogivesashit@lemmygrad.ml 1 point 2 years ago If you've read the news lately you might notice that several just did. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] whogivesashit@lemmygrad.ml 1 point 2 years ago If you've read the news lately you might notice that several just did. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks [B] 2 points 2 years ago Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://www.piped.video/watch?v=teevWpXlRZY Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube. I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] BradleyUffner@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) How the fuck should Israel proceed to neutralize those sites? Send in ground forces that can separate fighters from civilians in a way that leveling a building and killing everyone inside cannot. Hitting the building’s roof with a small explosive to announce that it will fall in 15 minutes So saying "attention, we will destroy your home, all your possessions, and your livelihood in 15 minutes", before doing exactly that to Innocent people makes them the good guys? I don't think so. Update It looks like they don't even knock any more. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] roo@lemmy.one 47 points 2 years ago (1 child) So, it's an unattended concentration camp, and they hope everyone dies there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 72 points 2 years ago (1 child) Has been for decades... It's over 2 million in like 140 sq miles... They don't have their own police, don't get to vote (Israel won't let them have an election), aren't in control of their own utilities, don't have freedom of movement, and get treated as subhuman. And Israel wants everyone to believe there's no reason for Palestinians to hate Israel's government. Put people in those conditions and refuse to treat them as humans, and some of them are going to stop acting like humans. It's basically sociology and would happen to any population in those conditions permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SCB@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago* Hamas is who does not allow further elections in Gaza. Following the Fatah–Hamas conflict that started in 2006, Hamas formed a government ruling the Gaza Strip without elections. Gazan Prime Minister Haniyye announced in September 2012 the formation of a second Hamas government, also without elections. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Palestine permalink fedilink source parent
[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 72 points 2 years ago (1 child) Has been for decades... It's over 2 million in like 140 sq miles... They don't have their own police, don't get to vote (Israel won't let them have an election), aren't in control of their own utilities, don't have freedom of movement, and get treated as subhuman. And Israel wants everyone to believe there's no reason for Palestinians to hate Israel's government. Put people in those conditions and refuse to treat them as humans, and some of them are going to stop acting like humans. It's basically sociology and would happen to any population in those conditions permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SCB@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago* Hamas is who does not allow further elections in Gaza. Following the Fatah–Hamas conflict that started in 2006, Hamas formed a government ruling the Gaza Strip without elections. Gazan Prime Minister Haniyye announced in September 2012 the formation of a second Hamas government, also without elections. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Palestine permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SCB@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago* Hamas is who does not allow further elections in Gaza. Following the Fatah–Hamas conflict that started in 2006, Hamas formed a government ruling the Gaza Strip without elections. Gazan Prime Minister Haniyye announced in September 2012 the formation of a second Hamas government, also without elections. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Palestine permalink fedilink source parent
[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 25 points 2 years ago If history's taught us anything, it's that the good guys always indiscriminately target civilians! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 17 points 2 years ago (1 child) Well, killing some and hope the rest will try to flee to Egypt at which point Gaza is free for the taking. Or well, maybe, they hope that in desperation people will try to rush the blockade, at which point they just kill them. Hamas awful actions have given Israel plenty of ammunition to keep everyone else on the world stage away for a while, no matter what they do now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago (3 children) Hamas awful actions Didn't happen in a vacuum... There's reasons people are willing to die in a war they have no chance of winning. It's stand up for your people or watch them essentially be tortured slowly to death. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 21 points 2 years ago (1 child) I mean, at the same time I can't support mass rape. Or rape in general. Also not a fan of carrying around naked corpses of multilated people. Not a fan. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) You think every Palestinian is doing that? That's the main use of propaganda, take some isolated incidents that really did happen nd really are inexcusable, and amplify the shit out of that so people think the whole side is doing that. The militaries of both sides are doing awful shit, but only one side has the power to enforce peace. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 15 points 2 years ago (1 child) You think every Palestinian is doing that? Which part of "Hamas awful actions" made you think that I extend this to all Palestinians? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] givesomefucks@lemmy.world -10 points 2 years ago (1 child) I mean, at the same time I can’t support mass rape. Or rape in general If the actions of a few are enough for you not to support Palestinians... Then yeah, you're extending that to all Palestinians. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 17 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Why do I need to support mass rape to support the Palestinian peoples right to a state and a free life? At what point is mass rape necessary for that? Rape is wrong and I stand by that in what appears to be a surprisingly controversial move. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] givesomefucks@lemmy.world -9 points 2 years ago (1 child) You don't... No one said you had to, even suggested you should... But when you take the actions of a few and blame an entire population for the actions of those few... That's bigotry. That's no different than seeing a gay child abuser and claiming all gay people abuse children, or seeing a Black drug dealer and saying all Black people are now drug dealers. Hell, I'm American and was in the military. American military members rape other American military members at a truly disturbing rate. Does that mean I'm guilty because I belong to the same population? To take it even further, do you blame those victims as well? Do you legitimately not understand? Because I'm starting to have doubts on your sincerity permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 11 points 2 years ago I don't know why you keep insisting that I disavow all Palestinians. That deep into the thread I don't know if you're willfully ignorant just to score some points against someone that isn't me. To spell it out again: I think rape is bad. I think that Palestina should be a state. If that's somehow incompatible to you, you need to check yourself. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) It’s stand up for your people or watch them essentially be tortured slowly to death. There is another option. Negotiate a viable peace, which they have refused to do repeatedly. Palestine is essentially a defeated state that refuses to acknowledge its loss or make concessions. The only victory condition they are willing to entertain is not viable and their insistence on fighting an unwinnable war, often via guerilla attacks and terrorism, will not end well for them. [Hamas's charter,] article 13, "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Gaza's last election was 17 years ago... And Israel both refuses to recognize Hamas as a government, but also refuses to help Gaza hold an election. They won't negotiate with Gaza, which because it was separated from the West Bank by Israel is essentially it's own government. It's pretty classic "divide and conquer". And before you say "Israel shouldn't be involved" then why are they in charge of pretty much every other facet of Gaza? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago Wikipedia says Palestinian presidential elections were indefinitely postponed by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas due to a Hamas-Fatah schism: The elections took place amid a tense atmosphere between Fatah and Hamas over the postponement of more major elections that were also scheduled for 2021. It was also reported that voters were angry with the postponement of the presidential election and the legislative election by President Mahmoud Abbas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021%E2%80%9322_Palestinian_local_elections Israel both refuses to recognize Hamas as a government, but also refuses to help Gaza hold an election. ... And before you say “Israel shouldn’t be involved” then why are they in charge of pretty much every other facet of Gaza? Because they are an adjacent hostile terrorist state, dedicated to their destruction, that they want to contain via leverage? permalink fedilink source parent [–] eatthecake@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Raping women is standing up for palestinians is it? How exactly have the actions of hamas helped the palestinian people? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) You can just scroll down and read the rest of the comment chain. I'll even quote the first for free You think every Palestinian is doing that? That’s the main use of propaganda, take some isolated incidents that really did happen nd really are inexcusable, and amplify the shit out of that so people think the whole side is doing that. The militaries of both sides are doing awful shit, but only one side has the power to enforce peace. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] eatthecake@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago You said hamas awful actions didnt happen in a vacuum and that they are standing up for their people. You are justifying mass rape as a war tactic. There is plenty criticize israel for but justifying the torture of civillians is appalling. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago (3 children) Hamas awful actions Didn't happen in a vacuum... There's reasons people are willing to die in a war they have no chance of winning. It's stand up for your people or watch them essentially be tortured slowly to death. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 21 points 2 years ago (1 child) I mean, at the same time I can't support mass rape. Or rape in general. Also not a fan of carrying around naked corpses of multilated people. Not a fan. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) You think every Palestinian is doing that? That's the main use of propaganda, take some isolated incidents that really did happen nd really are inexcusable, and amplify the shit out of that so people think the whole side is doing that. The militaries of both sides are doing awful shit, but only one side has the power to enforce peace. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 15 points 2 years ago (1 child) You think every Palestinian is doing that? Which part of "Hamas awful actions" made you think that I extend this to all Palestinians? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] givesomefucks@lemmy.world -10 points 2 years ago (1 child) I mean, at the same time I can’t support mass rape. Or rape in general If the actions of a few are enough for you not to support Palestinians... Then yeah, you're extending that to all Palestinians. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 17 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Why do I need to support mass rape to support the Palestinian peoples right to a state and a free life? At what point is mass rape necessary for that? Rape is wrong and I stand by that in what appears to be a surprisingly controversial move. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] givesomefucks@lemmy.world -9 points 2 years ago (1 child) You don't... No one said you had to, even suggested you should... But when you take the actions of a few and blame an entire population for the actions of those few... That's bigotry. That's no different than seeing a gay child abuser and claiming all gay people abuse children, or seeing a Black drug dealer and saying all Black people are now drug dealers. Hell, I'm American and was in the military. American military members rape other American military members at a truly disturbing rate. Does that mean I'm guilty because I belong to the same population? To take it even further, do you blame those victims as well? Do you legitimately not understand? Because I'm starting to have doubts on your sincerity permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 11 points 2 years ago I don't know why you keep insisting that I disavow all Palestinians. That deep into the thread I don't know if you're willfully ignorant just to score some points against someone that isn't me. To spell it out again: I think rape is bad. I think that Palestina should be a state. If that's somehow incompatible to you, you need to check yourself. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) It’s stand up for your people or watch them essentially be tortured slowly to death. There is another option. Negotiate a viable peace, which they have refused to do repeatedly. Palestine is essentially a defeated state that refuses to acknowledge its loss or make concessions. The only victory condition they are willing to entertain is not viable and their insistence on fighting an unwinnable war, often via guerilla attacks and terrorism, will not end well for them. [Hamas's charter,] article 13, "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Gaza's last election was 17 years ago... And Israel both refuses to recognize Hamas as a government, but also refuses to help Gaza hold an election. They won't negotiate with Gaza, which because it was separated from the West Bank by Israel is essentially it's own government. It's pretty classic "divide and conquer". And before you say "Israel shouldn't be involved" then why are they in charge of pretty much every other facet of Gaza? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago Wikipedia says Palestinian presidential elections were indefinitely postponed by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas due to a Hamas-Fatah schism: The elections took place amid a tense atmosphere between Fatah and Hamas over the postponement of more major elections that were also scheduled for 2021. It was also reported that voters were angry with the postponement of the presidential election and the legislative election by President Mahmoud Abbas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021%E2%80%9322_Palestinian_local_elections Israel both refuses to recognize Hamas as a government, but also refuses to help Gaza hold an election. ... And before you say “Israel shouldn’t be involved” then why are they in charge of pretty much every other facet of Gaza? Because they are an adjacent hostile terrorist state, dedicated to their destruction, that they want to contain via leverage? permalink fedilink source parent [–] eatthecake@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Raping women is standing up for palestinians is it? How exactly have the actions of hamas helped the palestinian people? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) You can just scroll down and read the rest of the comment chain. I'll even quote the first for free You think every Palestinian is doing that? That’s the main use of propaganda, take some isolated incidents that really did happen nd really are inexcusable, and amplify the shit out of that so people think the whole side is doing that. The militaries of both sides are doing awful shit, but only one side has the power to enforce peace. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] eatthecake@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago You said hamas awful actions didnt happen in a vacuum and that they are standing up for their people. You are justifying mass rape as a war tactic. There is plenty criticize israel for but justifying the torture of civillians is appalling. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 21 points 2 years ago (1 child) I mean, at the same time I can't support mass rape. Or rape in general. Also not a fan of carrying around naked corpses of multilated people. Not a fan. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) You think every Palestinian is doing that? That's the main use of propaganda, take some isolated incidents that really did happen nd really are inexcusable, and amplify the shit out of that so people think the whole side is doing that. The militaries of both sides are doing awful shit, but only one side has the power to enforce peace. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 15 points 2 years ago (1 child) You think every Palestinian is doing that? Which part of "Hamas awful actions" made you think that I extend this to all Palestinians? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] givesomefucks@lemmy.world -10 points 2 years ago (1 child) I mean, at the same time I can’t support mass rape. Or rape in general If the actions of a few are enough for you not to support Palestinians... Then yeah, you're extending that to all Palestinians. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 17 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Why do I need to support mass rape to support the Palestinian peoples right to a state and a free life? At what point is mass rape necessary for that? Rape is wrong and I stand by that in what appears to be a surprisingly controversial move. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] givesomefucks@lemmy.world -9 points 2 years ago (1 child) You don't... No one said you had to, even suggested you should... But when you take the actions of a few and blame an entire population for the actions of those few... That's bigotry. That's no different than seeing a gay child abuser and claiming all gay people abuse children, or seeing a Black drug dealer and saying all Black people are now drug dealers. Hell, I'm American and was in the military. American military members rape other American military members at a truly disturbing rate. Does that mean I'm guilty because I belong to the same population? To take it even further, do you blame those victims as well? Do you legitimately not understand? Because I'm starting to have doubts on your sincerity permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 11 points 2 years ago I don't know why you keep insisting that I disavow all Palestinians. That deep into the thread I don't know if you're willfully ignorant just to score some points against someone that isn't me. To spell it out again: I think rape is bad. I think that Palestina should be a state. If that's somehow incompatible to you, you need to check yourself. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) You think every Palestinian is doing that? That's the main use of propaganda, take some isolated incidents that really did happen nd really are inexcusable, and amplify the shit out of that so people think the whole side is doing that. The militaries of both sides are doing awful shit, but only one side has the power to enforce peace. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 15 points 2 years ago (1 child) You think every Palestinian is doing that? Which part of "Hamas awful actions" made you think that I extend this to all Palestinians? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] givesomefucks@lemmy.world -10 points 2 years ago (1 child) I mean, at the same time I can’t support mass rape. Or rape in general If the actions of a few are enough for you not to support Palestinians... Then yeah, you're extending that to all Palestinians. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 17 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Why do I need to support mass rape to support the Palestinian peoples right to a state and a free life? At what point is mass rape necessary for that? Rape is wrong and I stand by that in what appears to be a surprisingly controversial move. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] givesomefucks@lemmy.world -9 points 2 years ago (1 child) You don't... No one said you had to, even suggested you should... But when you take the actions of a few and blame an entire population for the actions of those few... That's bigotry. That's no different than seeing a gay child abuser and claiming all gay people abuse children, or seeing a Black drug dealer and saying all Black people are now drug dealers. Hell, I'm American and was in the military. American military members rape other American military members at a truly disturbing rate. Does that mean I'm guilty because I belong to the same population? To take it even further, do you blame those victims as well? Do you legitimately not understand? Because I'm starting to have doubts on your sincerity permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 11 points 2 years ago I don't know why you keep insisting that I disavow all Palestinians. That deep into the thread I don't know if you're willfully ignorant just to score some points against someone that isn't me. To spell it out again: I think rape is bad. I think that Palestina should be a state. If that's somehow incompatible to you, you need to check yourself. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 15 points 2 years ago (1 child) You think every Palestinian is doing that? Which part of "Hamas awful actions" made you think that I extend this to all Palestinians? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] givesomefucks@lemmy.world -10 points 2 years ago (1 child) I mean, at the same time I can’t support mass rape. Or rape in general If the actions of a few are enough for you not to support Palestinians... Then yeah, you're extending that to all Palestinians. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 17 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Why do I need to support mass rape to support the Palestinian peoples right to a state and a free life? At what point is mass rape necessary for that? Rape is wrong and I stand by that in what appears to be a surprisingly controversial move. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] givesomefucks@lemmy.world -9 points 2 years ago (1 child) You don't... No one said you had to, even suggested you should... But when you take the actions of a few and blame an entire population for the actions of those few... That's bigotry. That's no different than seeing a gay child abuser and claiming all gay people abuse children, or seeing a Black drug dealer and saying all Black people are now drug dealers. Hell, I'm American and was in the military. American military members rape other American military members at a truly disturbing rate. Does that mean I'm guilty because I belong to the same population? To take it even further, do you blame those victims as well? Do you legitimately not understand? Because I'm starting to have doubts on your sincerity permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 11 points 2 years ago I don't know why you keep insisting that I disavow all Palestinians. That deep into the thread I don't know if you're willfully ignorant just to score some points against someone that isn't me. To spell it out again: I think rape is bad. I think that Palestina should be a state. If that's somehow incompatible to you, you need to check yourself. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] givesomefucks@lemmy.world -10 points 2 years ago (1 child) I mean, at the same time I can’t support mass rape. Or rape in general If the actions of a few are enough for you not to support Palestinians... Then yeah, you're extending that to all Palestinians. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 17 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Why do I need to support mass rape to support the Palestinian peoples right to a state and a free life? At what point is mass rape necessary for that? Rape is wrong and I stand by that in what appears to be a surprisingly controversial move. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] givesomefucks@lemmy.world -9 points 2 years ago (1 child) You don't... No one said you had to, even suggested you should... But when you take the actions of a few and blame an entire population for the actions of those few... That's bigotry. That's no different than seeing a gay child abuser and claiming all gay people abuse children, or seeing a Black drug dealer and saying all Black people are now drug dealers. Hell, I'm American and was in the military. American military members rape other American military members at a truly disturbing rate. Does that mean I'm guilty because I belong to the same population? To take it even further, do you blame those victims as well? Do you legitimately not understand? Because I'm starting to have doubts on your sincerity permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 11 points 2 years ago I don't know why you keep insisting that I disavow all Palestinians. That deep into the thread I don't know if you're willfully ignorant just to score some points against someone that isn't me. To spell it out again: I think rape is bad. I think that Palestina should be a state. If that's somehow incompatible to you, you need to check yourself. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 17 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Why do I need to support mass rape to support the Palestinian peoples right to a state and a free life? At what point is mass rape necessary for that? Rape is wrong and I stand by that in what appears to be a surprisingly controversial move. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] givesomefucks@lemmy.world -9 points 2 years ago (1 child) You don't... No one said you had to, even suggested you should... But when you take the actions of a few and blame an entire population for the actions of those few... That's bigotry. That's no different than seeing a gay child abuser and claiming all gay people abuse children, or seeing a Black drug dealer and saying all Black people are now drug dealers. Hell, I'm American and was in the military. American military members rape other American military members at a truly disturbing rate. Does that mean I'm guilty because I belong to the same population? To take it even further, do you blame those victims as well? Do you legitimately not understand? Because I'm starting to have doubts on your sincerity permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 11 points 2 years ago I don't know why you keep insisting that I disavow all Palestinians. That deep into the thread I don't know if you're willfully ignorant just to score some points against someone that isn't me. To spell it out again: I think rape is bad. I think that Palestina should be a state. If that's somehow incompatible to you, you need to check yourself. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] givesomefucks@lemmy.world -9 points 2 years ago (1 child) You don't... No one said you had to, even suggested you should... But when you take the actions of a few and blame an entire population for the actions of those few... That's bigotry. That's no different than seeing a gay child abuser and claiming all gay people abuse children, or seeing a Black drug dealer and saying all Black people are now drug dealers. Hell, I'm American and was in the military. American military members rape other American military members at a truly disturbing rate. Does that mean I'm guilty because I belong to the same population? To take it even further, do you blame those victims as well? Do you legitimately not understand? Because I'm starting to have doubts on your sincerity permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 11 points 2 years ago I don't know why you keep insisting that I disavow all Palestinians. That deep into the thread I don't know if you're willfully ignorant just to score some points against someone that isn't me. To spell it out again: I think rape is bad. I think that Palestina should be a state. If that's somehow incompatible to you, you need to check yourself. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 11 points 2 years ago I don't know why you keep insisting that I disavow all Palestinians. That deep into the thread I don't know if you're willfully ignorant just to score some points against someone that isn't me. To spell it out again: I think rape is bad. I think that Palestina should be a state. If that's somehow incompatible to you, you need to check yourself. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) It’s stand up for your people or watch them essentially be tortured slowly to death. There is another option. Negotiate a viable peace, which they have refused to do repeatedly. Palestine is essentially a defeated state that refuses to acknowledge its loss or make concessions. The only victory condition they are willing to entertain is not viable and their insistence on fighting an unwinnable war, often via guerilla attacks and terrorism, will not end well for them. [Hamas's charter,] article 13, "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Gaza's last election was 17 years ago... And Israel both refuses to recognize Hamas as a government, but also refuses to help Gaza hold an election. They won't negotiate with Gaza, which because it was separated from the West Bank by Israel is essentially it's own government. It's pretty classic "divide and conquer". And before you say "Israel shouldn't be involved" then why are they in charge of pretty much every other facet of Gaza? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago Wikipedia says Palestinian presidential elections were indefinitely postponed by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas due to a Hamas-Fatah schism: The elections took place amid a tense atmosphere between Fatah and Hamas over the postponement of more major elections that were also scheduled for 2021. It was also reported that voters were angry with the postponement of the presidential election and the legislative election by President Mahmoud Abbas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021%E2%80%9322_Palestinian_local_elections Israel both refuses to recognize Hamas as a government, but also refuses to help Gaza hold an election. ... And before you say “Israel shouldn’t be involved” then why are they in charge of pretty much every other facet of Gaza? Because they are an adjacent hostile terrorist state, dedicated to their destruction, that they want to contain via leverage? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Gaza's last election was 17 years ago... And Israel both refuses to recognize Hamas as a government, but also refuses to help Gaza hold an election. They won't negotiate with Gaza, which because it was separated from the West Bank by Israel is essentially it's own government. It's pretty classic "divide and conquer". And before you say "Israel shouldn't be involved" then why are they in charge of pretty much every other facet of Gaza? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago Wikipedia says Palestinian presidential elections were indefinitely postponed by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas due to a Hamas-Fatah schism: The elections took place amid a tense atmosphere between Fatah and Hamas over the postponement of more major elections that were also scheduled for 2021. It was also reported that voters were angry with the postponement of the presidential election and the legislative election by President Mahmoud Abbas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021%E2%80%9322_Palestinian_local_elections Israel both refuses to recognize Hamas as a government, but also refuses to help Gaza hold an election. ... And before you say “Israel shouldn’t be involved” then why are they in charge of pretty much every other facet of Gaza? Because they are an adjacent hostile terrorist state, dedicated to their destruction, that they want to contain via leverage? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago Wikipedia says Palestinian presidential elections were indefinitely postponed by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas due to a Hamas-Fatah schism: The elections took place amid a tense atmosphere between Fatah and Hamas over the postponement of more major elections that were also scheduled for 2021. It was also reported that voters were angry with the postponement of the presidential election and the legislative election by President Mahmoud Abbas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021%E2%80%9322_Palestinian_local_elections Israel both refuses to recognize Hamas as a government, but also refuses to help Gaza hold an election. ... And before you say “Israel shouldn’t be involved” then why are they in charge of pretty much every other facet of Gaza? Because they are an adjacent hostile terrorist state, dedicated to their destruction, that they want to contain via leverage? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] eatthecake@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Raping women is standing up for palestinians is it? How exactly have the actions of hamas helped the palestinian people? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) You can just scroll down and read the rest of the comment chain. I'll even quote the first for free You think every Palestinian is doing that? That’s the main use of propaganda, take some isolated incidents that really did happen nd really are inexcusable, and amplify the shit out of that so people think the whole side is doing that. The militaries of both sides are doing awful shit, but only one side has the power to enforce peace. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] eatthecake@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago You said hamas awful actions didnt happen in a vacuum and that they are standing up for their people. You are justifying mass rape as a war tactic. There is plenty criticize israel for but justifying the torture of civillians is appalling. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) You can just scroll down and read the rest of the comment chain. I'll even quote the first for free You think every Palestinian is doing that? That’s the main use of propaganda, take some isolated incidents that really did happen nd really are inexcusable, and amplify the shit out of that so people think the whole side is doing that. The militaries of both sides are doing awful shit, but only one side has the power to enforce peace. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] eatthecake@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago You said hamas awful actions didnt happen in a vacuum and that they are standing up for their people. You are justifying mass rape as a war tactic. There is plenty criticize israel for but justifying the torture of civillians is appalling. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] eatthecake@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago You said hamas awful actions didnt happen in a vacuum and that they are standing up for their people. You are justifying mass rape as a war tactic. There is plenty criticize israel for but justifying the torture of civillians is appalling. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MeanEYE@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) No, and that was never the plan. Had it been Israel has far more efficient ways of doing it. The goal is to put the pressure on Hamas, two million people worth of pressure. You can claim you are fighting for freedom until stomachs start grumbling. Then Israel hopes Palestinians will turn on Hamas and the whole thing will be over or at least at a different stage where something can be done without wiping the whole place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] davepleasebehave@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago naive permalink fedilink source parent