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[–] 67 points 5 hours ago (38 children)

2FA is a good thing. You don't want it to go away.

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  • [–] 37 points 4 hours ago* (5 children)

    Except when it's just an email, or worse, a txt message, or worse, a whatsapp message, with no other option for using a proper 2fa generator...

    But also, not every site needs 2fa, sometimes I really couldn't care less if someone managed to hack into something, because I can just make a new account if that happened...

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  • [–] 20 points 3 hours ago (4 children)

    What really bugs me is that TOTP is objectively easier than any other form of 2fa. Just import the library, add the field on your login form, and you're done.

    • Email verification is annoying to code, it requires SMTP or an email gateway, is slow for the user, is risky from a security perspective, and to generate the code you probably still have to implement TOTP.
    • SMS/RCS is even more annoying to code, it almost inevitably requires a third-party gateway, it can work differently if the user is in a different country or on a MVNO or in a low-signal area or just has the wrong astrological sign, is very slow for the end user, is almost useless from a security perspective, and you STILL have to implement TOTP.
    • WhatsApp messages are somehow even more annoying to code than that, requires an api interaction with Meta (which is never fun and poorly documented), requires the end user to have an account with a specific third party, is slow for the end user, relies on another company's security posture to determine your own, and you STILL have to implement TOTP.
    • Making your own app for 2fa is undoubtedly the worst: not only is it annoying to code, it's an ongoing annoyance that is strained through multiple app stores, adds an additional maintenance and support load, adds additional technical debt, adds an unnecessary attack vector, requires users to download another app, is often unreliable, is often pretty slow for the end user, is a total crapshoot from a security perspective, and guess what? YOU PROBABLY STILL HAVE TO IMPLEMENT TOTP.

    Any company that chooses SMS or email verification over TOTP emphatically does not know what they're doing.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 hours ago (1 child)

    You don't have to implement totp for these alternatives... The "thing" about totp is that there's a shared secret and a timestamp. Due to potential drift in clocks you need a window and period to know how many time steps to test, and how long each is.

    But with an email/SMS/WhatsApp, there's no shared secret. So you can simply send a random code, and store server side when it was generated. Totp makes no sense in that case.

    Not that totp is difficult to implement at all. My implementation for work was what, less than 200 lines of C++ I think? I didn't implement the sha1 myself though.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 hour ago

    An earlier version of that comment said "something like TOTP," but I guess I left that out while I was revising it. My point is you have to implement something that does most of what TOTP does anyway, so why not just use the version that's already been stress tested?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 hours ago

    Almost all sites should allow me to choose whether I want 2fac. And they shouldn't prompt for it nearly as often as they do - some services do it for every login, most seem to do it every month at least.

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  • [–] [S] 9 points 5 hours ago (9 children)

    I don't want it for like 95% of the logins I have.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 hours ago (8 children)

    Seriously. Why would i care if someone logs into most of them. What are they going to do watch a movie on my Netflix account, play my kids roblox games, or change my crew on my Rockstar account? It's unnecessary bs.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 hours ago (3 children)

    Any account that does payment (like your netflix one), will be used to test out stolen credit cards. This will in turn flag your account for fraud. You might not want that. Unless you do, I don't know

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  • [–] 1 point 3 hours ago (2 children)

    What? Like they'd try and use a stolen credit card to pay for my service?

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  • [–] 15 points 4 hours ago (3 children)

    The bigger issue is gaining account details and personal info for identity theft.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 hours ago* (1 child)

    Which also doesn't matter anymore because companies sell our data all the time or just give it away through their own data insecurities. Or yanno, white pages. com and similar exists and its pretty easy to find anything about anyone anytime.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 hours ago* (2 children)

    I get the theory, but if it itself relies on some login-based service (like email) it becomes a kind of chicken and egg problem.

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  • [–] 1 point 12 minutes ago

    Reminds me of all the times I've run into "Please provide another email address we can use to verify your signup for this email address."

    So I can't have an email address unless I already have an email address. It's the most asinine thing

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  • [–] 1 point 4 hours ago

    Click login button -> Autofill username, password & totp token -> Done

    (And staying signed in not working is an intentional side effect of deleting cookies and temp data on closing the browser...)

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  • [–] 1 point 5 hours ago (13 children)

    yes I do. I will take convivence over security most days. Just because you don't, and you have good reasons to want it to stay, doesn't mean everyone comes to the same conclusion based on similar data.

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  • [–] 15 points 5 hours ago

    Although I personally think 2FA is very important in most cases, I agree that mandatory 2FA is annoying. If you want to forego security for convenience, that should be up to you. I'm sure you're not stupid or ignorant of the risks.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 hours ago (5 children)

    As a user its annoying, as a developer it is incredibly frustrating and time consuming.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 hours ago (4 children)

    It fails for somebody every day, it adds a dependency for a known unreliable 3rd party that often mangles the identification data it sends back, it is exploited by that 3rd party for extending their monopoly, and it gives that 3rd party (or any hacker that got access to them) full access to impersonate any user it wants.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 hours ago (3 children)

    What?

    Implement TOTP and let your users use their preferred authenticator and none of what you're struggling with will apply.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 hour ago*

    Oh, yeah, and of course there's someone on the internet talking about the MFA protocol that no corporation uses.

    That one is obligatory too.

    (Anyway, yes, if you need MFA, use TOTP. That's a non-brainier. Except that corporations don't have brains.)

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  • [–] 5 points 5 hours ago* (4 children)

    This is uterly idiotic but ok. I have decided I do not need to wear seat belt in the car. Just because you do and you have good reasons to want it to stay, doesn’t mean everyone comes to the same conclusion based on similar data.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 hours ago (3 children)

    there, now you are getting it.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 hours ago (2 children)

    i dont want you not wearing the seatbelt, it is so easy to do

    we live in a society and im tired of paying for stupid doing stupid things

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