Trump said he would consider pre-emptive pardons to protect Elon Musk and other close aides should Democrats take control of Congress

Donald Trump said he would be willing to protect Elon Musk and his staff if Democrats take control of Congress after the midterm elections this week.

In an interview for the “Pod Force One” podcast published Monday, Trump said he would move to “protect” the billionaire SpaceX and Tesla CEO if Congressional investigators targeted him.

Trump also indicated that he was weighing pre-emptive pardons for his close aides and others around him should the Democrats pursue investigations, according to Axios. It is a notion that the president has floated before to keep his team from facing prosecution for actions during the first two years of his term.

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[–] 88 points 8 hours ago (13 children)

Preemptive pardon should not even be a thing.

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  • [–] 41 points 7 hours ago (4 children)

    And if it is, the executive should list explicitly what crimes, on what days, against which individuals, cannot be brought to trial.

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  • [–] 41 points 6 hours ago* (3 children)

    This is the real crux of the issue. Blanket pardons shouldn’t be a thing. If you want to pardon someone, it should be specific. Which crimes? Where? When? Who was victimized? Who else was involved? What was the outcome of the crime?

    The SCOTUS has already ruled in Burdick v. US that accepting a pardon requires admitting guilt of the crime you’re being pardoned of. The wording of the ruling was that a pardon carries “an imputation of guilt and acceptance of a confession of it.” The SCOTUS has consistently held that a pardon does not overturn a guilty conviction. Instead, it removes the punishment for the crime. You’re still unequivocally guilty after a pardon.

    It shouldn’t be some sort of “I pardon you for waves arms in air vaguely” power, because that turns the whole “needing to admit guilt” part into a sly wink wink elbow nudge situation. It puts the person’s crimes in a quantum Schrödinger state. The person accepting a vague pardon is inarguably guilty of something, because they admitted guilt when they accepted the pardon. But the court doesn’t know what they’ve admitted to until a prosecutor tries to indict them, and they go “oh no you can’t prosecute me, I was pardoned.”

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  • [–] 3 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 child)

    Doesn't accepting a pardon, especially a blanket pardon, also mean that you lose your Fifth Amendment protection to not incriminate yourself? You can not be punished for what you did, that means you have nothing to fear and can be made to confess everything and incriminate accomplices. Wouldn't that be some way to have a go at Trump?

    Effect of a Pardon

    The Fifth Amendment privilege exists to protect the witness from providing self-incriminating testimony so long as, and only so long as, the danger of prosecution persists. As a result, according to at least one Supreme Court case, when a "witness has already received a pardon, he cannot longer set up his [Fifth Amendment] privilege, since he stands, with respect to such offense, as if it had never been committed."

    congress.gov

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  • [–] 6 points 5 hours ago

    It reminds me a little of popes selling indulgences. "Donate money and/or go on crusade, and I'll absolve you of any sins you've already commited or will commit in the future." That sort of thing eventually resulted in a rather significant schism.

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  • [–] 19 points 8 hours ago (6 children)

    They aren't a thing. You can only pardon a crime that's already been commited, not for future crimes.

    Also Trump violated his oath of office within 72 hours of this term beginning, so technically none of his pardons mean anything from this term and can just be reversed.

    He wasn't legitimately serving in capacity of the president since he abdicated his office by violating his oath.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 hours ago (1 child)

    "I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

    scRotus says anything dipshit does is just part of his doing the job and he can't be prosecuted for it at all.

    'to the best of my ability' is also doing some heavy work here. he has no qualifications for office and he's dumb as bricks. he's doing the 'best' he can, doing the only thing he knows how to: lie, cheat, steal.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 hour ago

    What I'm saying is the scrotus already set the path for executive overreach. The next president can use that to have them all killed if they wanted to Uber the same reasoning. Or just make up a pretext that isn't explicitly stated, like that they are sitting justices who will from here forward serve in a non judiciary capacity.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 hours ago (3 children)

    The crimes have already been committed, they just haven't been charged for it yet.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

    That would be interesting - if he could pardon the crimes but he'd first have to specifically detail them.

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  • [–] 1 point 51 minutes ago

    Exactly, and there's always like dozens of not hundreds of possible charges you could bring. If they pardon the few obvious big ones, they can still be charged on all the other ones, and have a judge sentence them to serve consecutively.

    They also aren't immune to civil suits for monetary damages and other things

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  • [–] 2 points 7 hours ago*

    Pardon should only be possible under very narrow circumstances. For example if laws got loosened after conviction or when convoction WAS obviously politically motivated. But neither can logically handed out before a judge read the verdict.

    What if trump pardons himself and friends for any sex crimes now, maybe even murder?

    Why would any judge honor this? Ooo now i'm thinking dems kept heads low regarding epstein convictions to use that very argumentation and they can't pardon themselves anymore. A man can have hope right?

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