“If we want more growth, we need to allow creative destruction so new companies can deliver the productivity we need.”

Octopus energy ceo greg jackson

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[–] 5 points 1 day ago* (17 children)

I don't know if I agree. A dictatorship decides to make more batteries and so the industry bends. Land is taken by the state to build mines. Little regard for the people or the environment.
All of this makes it easier for China to just move to electric, and part of why the EVs they export are so cheap.
They subsidise by environmental impact and possibly human suffering.

* Not to mention they own the battery market.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    I don’t think there’s a country in the developed world with a government that finds it distasteful to subsidize the consumption of their populace with environmental and human suffering. Moral superiority isn’t the difference being spotlit here. I think China just controls more manufacturing of its own which makes pivoting their society more efficient

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (1 child)

    The question was about politics and economics, not morals.
    I would hope not supporting suffering and destruction doesn't need to be explicitly stated to be understood.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 day ago

    Meanwhile the UK has royalty that live in opulent luxury whilst the working-class dwells in poverty. Their hayday of wildly looting and enslaving foreign nations is over. They have nothing.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago (11 children)

    I'm not sure the argument "EVs are bad for the environment actually" works as well as you think it does.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (10 children)

    I wasn't arguing that. The way China mines and processes lithium for battery manufacture, in which they're the leading exporter by far due to their rich rare earth deposits, is destroying the surrounding areas.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago (4 children)

    That's fair, but my point is: Is there any way to make lithium ion batteries otherwise? Like is there any evidence that for instance Australian lithium is "greener" so to speak?

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  • [–] 4 points 22 hours ago (3 children)

    I see, yes my understanding is that the process can be a lot cleaner and other countries do it (like the US), China just chooses to take cheap shortcuts to take stranglehold of the market, which they now have.

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  • [–] 2 points 15 hours ago* (2 children)

    Do you have any sources which elaborate on this?

    It at the same time sounds A) possible, and B) like the kind of thing that someone should support with evidence.

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  • [–] 0 points 12 hours ago (1 child)

    I have been hearing of this for a few years now, nothing specific recently that I can share, but I have enjoyed watching China Found Something Better Than Oil, which is the same topic but about neodymium magnets.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 hours ago

    Oh, yeah, I've seen that video.

    ... So I guess we don't really have an answer for why people are saying that Chinese rare earth element mining is more environmentally destructive than everyone else's rare earth element mining.

    Well, I mean, I've got a guess.

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  • [+] -7 points 1 day ago (4 children)

    LMFAO! Wait until you read about the industrial revolution and the environmental destruction caused by Great Britain. Go suck your king's cock.

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  • [–] 5 points 22 hours ago (3 children)

    Great contribution to the conversation

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  • [–] -1 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

    Europe's washed up--capitalist liberal democracies can't exist without looting. Each nation now wants to pivot towards war to begin the looting process again. Enjoy your austerity budgets. Meanwhile China will keep on winning.

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  • [–] 1 point 20 hours ago (1 child)

    Much of the reason China is winning is that it's now looting the environment and minorities in its own borders. Europe needs to lower wages across the board and scrap environmental regulations to compete, particularly when it comes to lithium.

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  • [–] 2 points 19 hours ago

    it’s now looting the environment

    It's much better today than it was even 20 years ago. There is still significant work to be done and remediation of places that have elevated cancer rates due to lack of regulation enforcement will take a lifetime, but you're talking about the wrong China.

    minorities in its own borders

    This is a fabrication. Minorities have special protections and autonomy. It is exploiting its own people though, while there has been significant reductions in extreme poverty, they aren't doing nearly enough here. [random Chinese people I talk to in China and border countries]

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