First things first, I don't doubt it is a bad thing, considering who supports it and who doesn't.

But my question is what exactly is the issue and what is the current and proposed voting process when it comes to IDs?

Here in my EU country, you have to show some version of a government ID, be it an ID card, drivers license or passport. And we don't have to pre-register to vote.

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[–] 78 points 12 hours ago (12 children)

First thing is that it is up to states to administer elections and make their own rules and laws. Given the record of the current president, many people and states are not very interested in giving up power over that to the federal government, who keeps trying to claim and take control of state-run elections anyway.

In the US, people are not automatically given IDs or driver licenses. They require a fair amount of time, other paperwork, and fees to procure. Therefore having one is automatically more likely for people with more time (retired, better job, etc), money, organized lives and physical ability since you must show up in person.

By organized lives, I mean people of higher economic status are more likely to live in stable situations where they have social security cards, passports and birth certificates easily accessible. If you don't have those documents - perhaps they were lost in a move, never given by parents, never applied for - it costs a fair bit to get them. A replacement SS card is free. A duplicate birth certificate can be $20-30. The average charge for an ID/DL is about $40. A copy of a marriage or divorce certificate is typically $10-40. A replacing naturalization certificate is almost $1,400.

Getting these documents could take weeks and an amount of money that's trivial to higher income people and significant to lower income people. Like voting, if you have a white collar job, it's fairly easy to take time out to do it. If you have an hourly job with little flexibility and/or lack a vehicle, it's much more difficult to go to government offices to obtain this paperwork. Some might ask, why would someone not have at least a driver's license or ID? Perhaps it expired, was lost, they moved and never got the paperwork, or couldn't afford the fees and time. Younger people and non-white people are known to be less likely to have the documents that would be required. It also creates barriers for armed service members.

Another aspect is the bill says women must prove their citizenship with documents that match their original, non-married name. So if you have a birth certificate that says Jane Doe but all your other documents say Jane Smith, since it was changed after marriage, that won't work. The requirements would also make it harder for trans people to register.

Next, there's the changes to registration process. Currently 42 states allow you to register online or by mail. That would be nixed. Voters would have to show up at an office in person to register. Currently signing under penalty of perjury that you are a U.S. citizen is considered adequate, along with proof of residency and documents like an ID (which required the aforementioned birth certificate etc to get in the first place). Under the proposed law, a drivers license would not be adequate in 90% of states. In some areas, voters must travel over 200 miles to get to an election office in person.

Another question is why this would be necessary. While Republicans have been claiming that non-citizens voting in federal elections is a major problem, there is no actual evidence of that. In fact, data from U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services says 0.04% of voters might be ineligible, and that's considered likely an overcount. When states have tried similar laws in the past, it ended up disenfranchising far, far more legitimate voters than the number of illegitimate voters thwarted.

So what's the actual effect of this? Mainly, to make it harder for poor people and women to vote, two groups who are more likely to vote for Democrats.

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  • [–] [S] 31 points 11 hours ago (5 children)

    Thank you for the very trhourough explanation. That's all fucking distopian.

    I can imagine the issue with lack of easy access to government IDs also has other consequences for lower income people.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

    How difficult/expensive/time-consuming is it to get a government ID in Europe? Is it something that's sent to you with basically no action on your part?

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 4 hours ago

    Unfortunately its neither free nor automatic, though it should be.

    It's about €75 in my country, and you need to go in person. But in general, at least our labor laws are much better so its easier to take PTO for these things,and public transport is good to get there. Most people get them at 14 years old, when it becomes mandatory to have one.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

    That depends completely on the country. There can be very big differences!

    In Finland it works so that you go to some company that will take a photo of you and uploads it to the police's database. Then you go to the web site of the police, log in using your online banking passwords and apply for the new ID card or passport. The site might say "visiting the police station required", in which case you must go physically to a police station to show your face. That was necessary for example when I was getting the first passports for my children. Or if you have no previous ID.

    The new ID card or passport is delivered to the nearest R-Kioski (think Seven-Eleven) and you get it from there by showing your previous ID. If it's your first ID, you probably need to get it in person at the police station when it's ready.

    USA has a rule that people can visit it visa-free only if they are from a country where passports and ID cards are renewed every 5 years or more often. Therefore, in EU the passports must be renewed every 5 years instead of every 10 years like it is in USA, where US laws regarding this do not apply.

    Taking the photo typically costs about 25 €, the actual document is something like 50 or 60 €. So, altogether about 75 € or so.

    And the official instructions for how to apply for an ID card are here: https://poliisi.fi/en/how-to-apply-for-an-identity-card

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  • [–] 25 points 11 hours ago (1 child)

    It makes the homelessness trap nearly impossible to escape without outside help.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 hours ago

    Yeah, when I was homeless after high school and couch surfing, I needed to get a friend to notarize a statement that I was living with him to get my ID so I could get a job. I got lucky, I don't know how I would have done it if I was sleeping rough.

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  • [+] -29 points 12 hours ago (5 children)
  • [–] 22 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

    I said there’s no evidence it’s a major issue. The numbers mentioned there are extremely small compared to tens of millions of votes. One person? Wow. 16 people? Im sure it was worth their time and taxpayer money. The stat I cited said .04%. Others say less. No elections are won or lost by .04%.

    The Heritage Foundation looked into this and found a total of 100 cases since 1982.

    https://electionfraud.heritage.org/search (Choose “alien” in the bottom menu).

    The idea that non-citizens would take the time and risk to vote illegally sounds pretty stupid to me, and it seems they agree.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 hours ago (1 child)

    I wonder which side the folks committing fraud admired

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  • [–] 4 points 9 hours ago

    Not sure if that matters for like 5 people. Anyway, looking at the Heritage Foundation data, many of the illicit voters were Hispanic, a group that went for Trump in 2024 and are seen as a major bloc that got him elected. Most people from Central America are Catholic, and tend to be socially conservative. This group is supporting Trump less these days, but this goes back to 1982, as noted. What was your guess?

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