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France's Le Pen opposes Ukraine EU membership over farming fears (kyivindependent.com)
submitted 1 day ago* by to c/europe@feddit.org
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All rightwing fascists are basically the same, it is exhaustingly monotone.

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[–] -4 points 1 day ago (15 children)

I'm no fan of Le Pen, but taking her point about Ukraine's effect on French farmers in isolation, is she wrong about that?

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  • [–] 11 points 1 day ago (3 children)

    Depends on what we deem favorable. French (and actually all EU farmers) are highly dependend on subsidies by the EU. Otherwise they couldn't compete globally and/or stand the price war from the retailers. Ukraine in the market would most probably mean lower consumer prices (due to further improved supply) while further stressing farmers. On the onther hand with farmers already dependend on subsidies I don't see why this couldn't be countered.

    What also bothers me is that the far-right usually has a libertarian economic point of view which in the last resort is the reason for the miserable situation of dmall farmers... however now and then they pretend to care about them, just like the conservatives do.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    I actually doubt it would meaningfully reduce food prices for regular consumers. Ukraine mostly produces bulk grain. The price of bread wheat hovers around 20-25 eurocent per kilo. When you buy bread in the store the cost of the wheat is a miniscule part of the price. The real money in the food network is not in farming food but in processing it and running grocery stores selling it. Wheat can easily triple in value just by grinding it to flour and putting it in a paper bag. The value of barley goes up over 1000% when brewed into beer. If we let Ukraine in maybe we can reduce the price of some grains and bulk sunflower seed by a couple eurocents which will make pretty much no difference at all for the consumer but it will reduce the profits of our EU grain farmers by double digit procentage points.

    Can we counteract this with even more agricultural subsidies? Of course we can. But that's a cost that has to be planned for. The alternative is letting the least profitable farmers to go bust, leading to only mega farms remaining. Which is either a good thing or a bad thing depending on your perspective. Worth noting is that in Ukraine there are almost only mega farms already because of the Soviet farm collectivisation heritage. That's part of the reason they can produce grain so efficiently and cheaply, in combination with them having some of the most fertile soils on earth.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago* (1 child)

    And those bankrupt farmers won't just lie down and take it. They'll vote for whoever goes against that before or after it happens. That'll also be a part of the cost.

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  • [–] 1 point 19 hours ago

    @avidamoeba@lemmy.ca

    This has nothing to do with French farmers. Le Pen has a strong history of lenient positions toward authoritarian regimes, particularly China and probably more so toward Russia.

    Though she sometimes appears to have a critical stance towards China, it is mainly rhetorical. In 2025, for example, her party was the only party to oppose a national resolution to impose a €2 levy on small packages, which primarily targeted the flood of Shein and Temu packages in France.

    Her stance toward Russia is explicitly pro-Kremlin. Before the invasion of Ukraine, she notoriously defended closer ties with Putin’s regime and even publicly justified the annexation of Crimea. It's for such comments that a 2023 French parliamentary report says that Le Pen’s far right serves as mouthpiece for the Kremlin.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago (8 children)

    No, she's not wrong about that. We have already seen that when the black Sea is blocked and Ukraine has been allowed to export grain via the land route into the EU it has depressed local grain prices in the eastern EU. Ukraine is one of the largest agricultural producers in the world and most of what they produce is not consumed domestically. Therefore the surplus of food the EU produces will increase in several categories. And when supply goes up by a lot but demand goes up by only a little, prices go down and the current EU farmers earn less. This would however be a good deal for Ukrainian farmers who get a new lucrative market to export to.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 day ago

    Ukraine is one of the largest agricultural producers in the world and most of what they produce is not consumed domestically.

    which is one very good reason as to why you want them in the EU, this gives the EU massive soft power around the world having control of the worlds food basket.

    I saw one theory postulating that's exactly why Russia wants it.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago (4 children)

    How come EU farmers need tax breaks, subsidies and be closed caste and still produce with barely competitive prices when one of the poorest countries in Europe produces cheaper? Okay I understand food standard maybe not same but same standard will apply if UA joins. Somehow I doubt prices will jump drastically

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (3 children)

    Cheaper labor means lower costs of production. But honestly the largest reason is that Ukraine has these enormous mega farms that stem from Soviet era collectivisation. These farms own several hundreds sometimes thousands of hectares of continuous farmland and often own 0 debt. Being of that size and almost more importantly, being that size debt free, brings a lot of benefits. Just to put it into perspective the average farm in Ukraine today is 649 hectares while in neighbouring EU Romania the average farm size is 4,4 hectares. Ukrainian farming has more in common with the type of farming in the US and Canadian great plains than the rest of Europe, especially eastern Europe.

    Also Ukraine is covered in a certain soil type called chernozem which is one of the most fertile on the planet. This leads to large yields. And contrary to a lot of other poor countries around the world all of their farms are fully mechanized and use the latest technology, which is possible because of the large farm sizes mentioned earlier. The 649 hectare Ukraine farm can afford a totally different equipment than the 4,4 hectare Romania farm.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago* (2 children)

    Good points. However I want to point out that those technologies were not given free, yes some old soviet stuff left but investments have to been made. Also I’m not sure about ownership, repots I found says that 94% of farmland is not owned but land-leased. Ukraine farms have less fragmentation for sure. People especially elderly owning piece of bigger farmland hire enterprises to grow crops for a cut on their land. Maybe EU need to focus on investments which benefit industry not individuals. I see a lot of reports about direct support but close to nothing about tech, logistics, cooperatives and defragmentation. Romania is one example but I never saw Romanian farmers being as loud as French. France’s territory is 27% arable land (170000 km2). Sounds big enough to improve at scale.

    I’m not saying others can be as competitive as Ukraine but it’s shortsighted to say “they have more X than us so we won’t let them in”. I’d think one would want to get X to benefit themselves.

    The entire point of EU is to erase visible and invisible borders. We should not care about industries within countries, but within the EU. If there is area with better farmland in France, does French farmer from across the country protest or move to better place? German farmer thinks Ukraine farming more competitive - accept Ukraine into EU, move to Ukraine - profit. That’s what people in other industries do.

    If it’s fear of exit and loosing agricultural capacity within EU - sign additional clause with Ukraine to give special residency and farming guarantees for some 50 years.

    People need to stop being nationalists. Better be smart in cooperation and negotiations.

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  • [–] 1 point 18 hours ago*

    Also I’m not sure about ownership, repots I found says that 94% of farmland is not owned but land-leased.

    When talking about efficiency gains you scale with your cultivated area. If that land is owned or leased does not matter.

    those technologies were not given free, yes some old soviet stuff left but investments have to been made.

    I'm not talking about Soviet stuff. It's the fact that the ability to invest in new technology is strongly correlated with farm size. For example a farm only needs one N sensor. A 4 hectare farm could never invest in one profitably but a 800 hectare farm can buy one and profit first year.

    If there is area with better farmland in France, does French farmer from across the country protest or move to better place? German farmer thinks Ukraine farming more competitive - accept Ukraine into EU, move to Ukraine - profit. That’s what people in other industries do.

    Farming must be one of the least mobile industries in the world. It's very rare that farmers ever move and that's because the most common entry into farming is inheriting a farm. Most would rather close down than move internationally. And if you just bankrupted your own farm you don't really have the capital anyway to buy another farm.

    France’s territory is 27% arable land (170000 km2). Sounds big enough to improve at scale.

    Becoming as competitive as Ukraine requires one of three things. Lowering wages, increasing average farm size for efficiency gains or increasing subsidies. Lowering wages is not desirable and neither are increasing subsidies. Increasing average farm size could be an option but that one is very controversial to a lot of people, even non farmers who just happen to be fond of small scale farming. News headlines titled "small family farms that have been run for generations are forced to close en masse" would not look good.

    However don't get me wrong. I 100% would be very pro getting Ukraine to enter the EU. However the fact that the entry of Ukraine would be a challenge to existing agriculture in the EU is a real issue that has to be accounted for. It's kind of like attaching the US Midwest cornbelt right at the EU land border and opening up free trade. Of course that would lead to a disruption in the market.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago

    Meh, she doesn't give two fucks about farmers. Her and her party voted over and over, both in the Assemblée and in the European Parliament, in favour of more free trade between the EU and Brazil or Australia, for less regulations for toxic chemicals, and in favour of a plethora of ecocidal laws and such.

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