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"Public spaces belong to the public by right. And the unhoused public, who have the greatest need for public spaces, have therefore the greatest right" (slrpnk.net)
submitted 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) by to c/memes@slrpnk.net
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Edit

I kinda made this post out of spite for the fact the most previous post in this community, whose title I quoted/copied, was getting so many downvotes... At the time I posted this, the previous post had about a 30% downvote rate, and it really, really made me mad.

I am relieved tho to see people in the comments here who have real, actual empathy for their fellow humans. Thank you for contributing here.

It blows my mind how normalized it is to hate on those who are struggling. Especially in 20fucking23 when so many of us now are on the verge of it ourselves. Let's be better, everyone - to everyone. I beg you.

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[–] 37 points 3 years ago (30 children)

When those public spaces become shantytowns, crime rises in that area. So no- it’s not only about survival for the homeless. It’s not so cut-and-dry.

Those that live in those areas deserve to not be mugged. They deserve to feel safe in their homes.

Don’t act like it’s a right for people to become junkies that refuse help. Empathy is reserved for people who try and help themselves. Setting up a permanent encampments shows no intent to help one’s self.

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  • [–] 21 points 3 years ago (16 children)

    A friend of mine once said "no one healthy wakes up one day and decides to try heroin, just for fun."

    That really stuck with me. There are many reasons why people use substances, and there are many reasons why people may refuse help. This doesn't make them less than. You, as an outsider, have no knowledge or understanding of the circumstances that lead them to where they now are.

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  • [+] -7 points 3 years ago* (15 children)

    A 30+ year long friend of mine overdosed and died a few months ago. Don’t talk to me about what makes people become junkies. The fact is- ALL of them chose to remain so.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 years ago (13 children)

    Being in perpetual debilitating pain from botched operations, wounds sustained during battle or plain accidents are not a choice. Neither is having any number of diseases that leaves you in said chronic pain.

    The healthcare system is nothing but an administrative nightmare in many places, and it can be nigh impossible to get the help needed to recover to a functional life depending on where you live.

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  • [+] -8 points 3 years ago (12 children)

    No one made someone an addict but themselves. Period. FULL STOP.

    And the sooner we stop coddling addicts, the better for them- and everyone they make to suffer by their side.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 years ago (11 children)

    You've clearly never lived with any sort of chronic pain condition. I've only ever gotten fentanyl once - in the hospital, with a doctor's hand inside my stomach. You also clearly have no idea how hard it is to rebuild a normal life after several surgeries that don't end well.

    I'd be dead or in the streets too except I happen to live somewhere halfway decent, and even then I barely get by on a monthly script. Do you have any idea how it feels when your insides are filled with cysts? Ever had your intestines on the outside of your body involuntarily? How about breaking open your nose bone to get even more cysts out?

    You feel like people unlucky enough to go through things like that should just suck it up for their remaining years? It's just a little pain, right?

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  • [–] -5 points 3 years ago (10 children)

    I absolutely live with chronic pain. Both a debilitating herniated disc, and fibromyalgia. And I manage it without becoming a junkie.

    Don’t think you know someone because of a few paragraphs on the internet.

    Lastly, I didn’t say people shouldn’t take pain medications. Don’t be fucking stupid. You’re manufacturing an argument out of nothing.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 years ago (9 children)

    Those "paragraphs" has been the past 6 years of my life. My son was 3 when I got sick, and he's only ever seen me lie in bed or hobble around awkwardly.

    I'm not manufacturing anything, I'm living it.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 years ago (8 children)

    Are you a heroin junkie living in a tent?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (7 children)

    No, but I'd be homeless (and I have been, albeit for a short time) right now and probably on something illegal if I didn't live where I do. Whether you call it an addiction or not I can't function (read: move) without opiates daily, and I get monthly injections as well. I have 12 different daily medications atm. Do you think I choose to live like this?

    Before I got sick I was a respected special ed. teacher. Now I'm nothing. Life isn't as black and white as you seem to think it is. If I didn't have a caring wife and son there's no reason to think I would have any semblance of a life. Many are not lucky enough to have someone.

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  • [–] -3 points 3 years ago* (6 children)

    No,

    Then you’re clearly not who I’m taking about. So knock off the uppity white-knight-for-opioids nonsense and come back to the wheelhouse of the discussion-

    I’m taking about HOMELESS HEROIN JUNKIES HERE IN SEATTLE.

    Stop manufacturing an argument.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (5 children)

    Last time I checked the world is quite a bit larger than Seattle.

    This discussion is incredibly relevant to the situation at large - I'm not even american and still I was affected by your opiate issues.

    Stocks didn't get refilled, scripts had to be changed and there's an incredible stigma surrounding the whole thing - one that you're perpetuating with these very arguments.

    You're dehumanising human beings in pain. They can be vile, terrible persons for sure, I'm not arguing against that, but you're still dehumanising them.

    Why would they be nice to you in return when you've already written them off like this, I wonder?

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  • [–] -1 points 3 years ago (3 children)

    And to add- do you honest think kindness and compassion works on a heroin junkie needing a fix? Unless you’ve been through it, watched a close fried for over 40 years DIE from it, and seen people murdered over it-

    Shut the fuck up about it.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (2 children)

    I lost my best friend to an overdose, yes. It was intentional, and his third attempt, but he did succeed in the end. Can't blame him though, as he had a titanium hip that made his life a living hell and no access to legit medicine because doctors are afraid to prescribe them.

    Your insults make you sound like a petulant child considering the topic at hand. Do you think they somehow make anything better?

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  • [+] 13 points 3 years ago (5 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] 4 points 3 years ago* (2 children)

    this is entirely valid. and our kids deserve to walk to school without getting stabbed by the needles all over the place.

    I think a balance needs to be found and the unhoused communities need to police their own residents; Seattle has had success with this and the tiny housing communities it's established - they give people an address to start seeking assistance for their issues, and don't tolerate violence and dangerous behaviors like leaving needles everywhere.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    I don't understand the appeal of going onto the internet just to lie about a group of people who have done nothing to harm you.

    I used to live in next to a homeless encampment. I used to walk by it every single day for 2 years. I have never ONCE seen a needle on the ground, day or night. You know what I did see a bunch of? People claiming that there were needles everywhere, without a single shred of evidence whatsoever.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 years ago

    I've lived in Northeast Seattle (near 125th) and South Seattle (othello) - seen needles at the Van Asselt community center when taking my kid to daycare. The staff had to sweep the park and wading pool daily. In Lake City, all around the Lake City mini park and what's now the skate park.

    I'm an advocate for finding solutions but to disregard the reality faced by parents just trying to prevent their kids getting stuck with used needles is real man.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago)

    I never said they don’t deserve love. I simply said they don’t deserve free sheltering if they are committing crimes and shrieking all night outside your window while slamming their shoes on the pavement.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 years ago* (2 children)

    The only way tent shelters will ever work without simply adding to the public health crisis, is to heavily legislate urban camping rules.

    Make it legal to use an emergency outdoor shelter, provided it has a permit, to be renewed every week, confirms to size and placement regulations, is constructed from flame retardant materials, and (barring hazardous weather) that it's taken down every day from sunrise to sunset.

    We then attach to the free permitting process, an identification check, automatic enrollment in welfare services, career counseling, etc. and immediate access to mental health and substance abuse rehabilitation.

    Care for those who obey the rules and scrape up those that don't.

    We can't just let people rot indefinitely, huddling half naked under a leaky plastic tarp, searching for that last good vein, and call it compassion.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago*

    Oh look! Someone MAKING SENSE!

    Everything below is anecdotal, take it how you want:

    The major issue you'll have with implementation of a program like this, is having the neo-liberal agenda calling it "homeless-tagging" . Which, in their eyes, equates to tagging a wild animal so it can be traced. You better believe the next high influence, Tiktok warrior would make a scathing I comment on it without research.

    Like "Yeah, no shit, we tag animals to check on their well being and locations. All to necessitate the proper procedures for handling them when they need help or guidance. We tag ourselves when we get social security card or ID's, or when we take a Goddamn selfie with location settings on. The only difference is that social media and the government is handling you."

    It's getting out of hand here in Los Angeles. Venice was the worst. I DARE all the commenter's in this thread that say 'it's not that bad' to take a stroll underneath an overpass here in LA proper to ask if they need help. They don't want it. Trust me. I've tried. Multiple times. I've almost got myself killed.

    The suburb I live in is currently seeing a rise in homeless people just sleeping wherever they want sans tent. For example: Today I saw a dude sleeping right next to the driveway of a public plaza on the ground with a pookie in his hand. Half a block away.

    There was also another dude just sleeping in our laundry room 3 weeks ago. Strung out. I asked him if he needed help and he told me to "fuck off". So I called the cops, and said "hey this guy needs medical attention. I think he's on drugs and in and out of consciousness". You know what the cops/paramedic did? They came over, woke him up, told him to leave because this wasn't his property. EMT asked him a few questions, checked him out and he was barely coherent enough to say, "I don't want your help, go away". He told the cops to fuck off as he was leaving. EMT's followed him out and he left on a stretched after arguing with him for a few minutes. The cops said "he's gone now, call us when he comes back". Not "if" but "when". Sure enough, dude was caught sleeping there again a week later by a neighbor. This time sober, but belligerent. "I'm just charging my fucking phone! Leave me alone!" was his excuse.

    So the Manager called the cops again.. Rinse... Repeat. Happened again with different person this week.

    We tried the whole "Hey, come back during the day with the Manager's permission" thing or "Hey you want some food, we have plenty. Sooner or later it was like that book "If you give a mouse a cookie". They steal clothes from the laundry room and try to knock on people's doors to get cigarettes. Not food. Fucking. Cigarettes.

    On the flipside, a year ago we had a lady and her old, disabled dad just wandering the streets at 1 Am in front of our apartment. We asked them if they were OK and she had explained that her dad's medical bills made them homeless, She explained that they were just trying to get through the night without being attacked by other homeless dude. So my neighbors rallied together and gave them about 2 weeks worth of food and supplies. We all paid for a hotel room for a week to help them get some relief. Her dad passed away a few weeks later, but she was grateful for it as he was suffering. We gave her some resources on how to get some help locally. Haven't heard back from her after that.... Hope she's doing alright.

    What a clusterfuck this whole thing is.

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