gusgalarnyk comments on The reason the right are so anti Mamdani is obvious: they don’t want you to see what your tax dollars being put to work the right way would actually look like. Then everyone would want it everywhere.

[–] gusgalarnyk@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago (7 children)

I don't know if I love that phrase's use here as it sets up the government as some foreign entity that is stealing from you when, at least in theory, it should be the price you pay for your community's betterment. Of course that's not what it feels like in the US (maybe anywhere, maybe federal taxes feel bad always), but that's an argument for redistributing power and fixing the underlying systems more so than it is to be upset that taxes are a thing (or paint them as... Evil or something which this phrase does).

permalink

fedilink

source

parent

hideshow 7 child comments

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 1 point 11 hours ago (4 children)

Even if it's for something good, they're still reaching into your pocket and taking wages you earned by working.

It would be more progressive if taxes were raised from the unearned rents of the wealthy, with land value taxes.

permalink

fedilink

source

parent

hideshow 4 child comments

[–] gusgalarnyk@lemmy.world 1 point 11 hours ago (3 children)

I am slowly loathing commenting on Lemmy, people here seem increasingly incapable of having a good conversation.

I'm explicitly saying framing it as "reaching into your pocket and taking your wages" is a negative light to cast taxes in. You don't go to the bakery and buy bread and describe it as the baker reaching into your pocket and taking your wages. That would be insane. You pay the baker to provide you bread.

Society should, and I'm gonna emphasize this for the most common commentors, should as in theoretically in an ideal society taxes should feel like a person paying the city for good public transit, universal healthcare, UBI, minimally expensive maximally effective defense, a social safety net, regulatory bodies, public education, fire protection, wildlife preserves and parks, libraries, and public and enriching spaces.

It shouldn't, ideally, feel like someone reaching into your pockets, it should feel like a valuable transaction. Taxes don't have to be a negative thing, akin to someone stealing your money. They should be something people take pride in.

Of course the US is a falling state and so this hasn't been the case for a long time (if ever), and most other countries despite providing better services still have to deal with the conservative propaganda that "welfare" and "healthcare" and "public transit" are wasteful. That's not what I'm really here addressing. I'm just saying painting taxes as theft enables and supports conservative propaganda that disables or errodes community ownership and power - the very things that are synonomous with quality of life.

permalink

fedilink

source

parent

hideshow 3 child comments

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 1 point 10 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (2 children)

Pausing the discussion about progressive taxation for a second.

If people on Lemmy seem increasingly incapable of having a good conversation, then who do you think is the most likely person to have changed?

We should be able to discuss this subject without personal attacks.

permalink

fedilink

source

parent

hideshow 2 child comments

[–] gusgalarnyk@lemmy.world 1 point 8 hours ago (1 child)

I mean I get your point, it's easy to assume the consistent factor in the discussions is the problem and you might be right. Id argue the systems of Lemmy are producing, through a mechanism I don't understand, worse conversations over time. It might not even be Lemmy but the rise of AI or bots, I don't really know. But I've had a couple conversations now within a short period that it's like talking to people with an axe to grind throwing a random dart at the comment section and having it out there under the guise of talking to me - a person. It's infuriating.

You've not been that bad, but you did miss the entire point of what I was saying and didn't really engage with the point of my comment. Maybe my comments aren't as focused as I think they are, or maybe in online discourse the capacity to focus on the secondary threads (or maybe the inability to distinguish what the main topic is) is too hard. Idk.

I'm not trying to attack you, I'm venting my frustration for something you did but that isn't your fault as I'm systemically seeing it on Lemmy as of late.

Like imagine replying to this comment with "ignoring what you wrote, when the government reaches into your pocket to take your money, shouldn't we have a better say in where that money gets spent." It's like... Not engaging with the person's comment in it's entirety and focusing on the smallest secondary thread instead while reinforcing the reason why I brought up the primary thread.

Again, no shame or disdain or ill feelings towards you. I'm just trying to explain what happened from my perspective and now officially and publicly wondering why this keeps happening.

permalink

fedilink

source

parent

hideshow 1 child comment

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 1 point 6 hours ago

They've raised a valid criticism of our tax structure and we're focused on wording. Governments are taking money from working class people, and the assertion that this is necessary for a healthy society is not true.

permalink

fedilink

source

parent

[–] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 2 points 1 day ago (1 child)

That is the point. The taxes are reality, you are going to pay them. Whether they are evil or not depends on what that money is used for.

permalink

fedilink

source

parent

hideshow 1 child comment

[–] anarchy79@lemmy.world 1 point 1 day ago*

"Reach into your pocket" makes it sound as if they're stealing from you. Which, if you live in the USA, is mostly true.

In functioning democratic societies those taxes pay for things that benefit the citizens. At least that is the stated goal, and if they fuck it up, they get voted out.

I think you guys need to start voting with your bullets.

permalink

fedilink

source

parent