submitted 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) by to c/slop@hexbear.net
 

I really need to stop trying to engage with these folks.

e: https://lemmy.ml/post/52843922/27877933

If you want to go see the depths of this dork's ideology.

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[–] 17 points 4 weeks ago (6 children)

We really need to get better at messaging how communism (and socialism) creates more freedom for people to decide how they live their life, because they are no longer bound by the oppressiveness of the capitalist class

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  • [–] 19 points 4 weeks ago* (5 children)

    It has nothing to do with our 'messaging'. If you understand and read enough theory, the 'freedom' aspect becomes a completely moot point, because you understand that these people mean something completely different than a freedom enjoyed by the working class. It is a saturation issue, not a content issue.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 weeks ago*

    Yes. Freedom is only the positive expression for the same thing negatively expressed by constraint. Liberals speak about abstract freedom when they really mean a specific set of constraints, constraints which allow for imperialism but which deny dignity for the masses.

    To Saleh’s point, communists should insist on this difference, on the specific contradictory character of bourgeois “freedom”, and how there are other (obviously better) kinds of freedom that are not organized around private property. It is a theoretical point not easily packaged for the layperson, but could include simple messages about , who legally murdered and maimed many people through denial of medical care, who enjoy a freedom that is at odds with a working class conception of freedom.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

    I haven’t read as much theory as many people here but I do talk to a lot of working class people. Freedom may have a different meaning in books that what people talk about. The people I talk to care a lot about gaining agency over their lives and they use the word freedom to describe it. It’s important that we can express to them that we feel the same way and need them to join the struggle for their own betterment.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

    It isn't that 'freedom means something different in books'.

    When a capitalist talks about freedom, they are talking about their freedom to oppress you, cheat you, and subject you to longer working hours in worse conditions. When a working class person talks about freedom, they mean actually getting a say in how work is done, being able to negotiate their pay, how many hours they work etc.

    You can't have both.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    Yes, that needs to be communicated though and that is my point because it isn’t communicated as well as it could be.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 weeks ago*

    I think it is communicated well, ideologically, though. The issue is one of reach and saturation. A material deficit of media saturation.

    What we are saying is intuitive to working class people. It is communicated this way whenever a communist is included in the conversation. How often are we actually included in those conversations though?

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