this post was submitted on 12 Sep 2023
78 points (91.5% liked)

No Stupid Questions

35779 readers
932 users here now

No such thing. Ask away!

!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.

All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.



Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.

On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.

If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.



Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.

If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.



Credits

Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!

The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Ok I think I do know the answer but I never learned it, so I want to learn it today. It's been about 1 year now we can reliably make 3nm chips, which is impressive on a scale of size. But why is is better? My theory is simply: We can make a product the same size but add more on it because it's smaller, making it stronger and faster for more complex operations. Which would mean it's not the chip that's impressive on its own, just the size of it.

Or there is something else, and I'd love to get the full explanation and understand chips better

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 146 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

Until we have reliable and wide-temperature operating superconductors, electronics are limited by electrical resistance in the materials that conduct electricity. So the materials inside CPUs have resistance. With chemistry we've lowered it as much as we can, but for it to still be a semiconductor (the material that makes transistors and CPUs work) there are practical limits and we've hit those with humanity's knowledge today.

Take your hand palm flat and place it on the floor next to your foot. Put some weight on your hand and drag your hand quick from your toes to your heel. Your hand got a little warm from the friction, right? Now imagine doing that same hand dragging exercise from your bedroom all the way to your living room. HOT HOT HAND! Friction is the same thing that causes heat in CPUs. The friction is the electrons flowing rubbing against the resistance in the conductor.

So we've got heat limiting us, and the more distance we have, the more heat we have, the more limits on CPU speed we have.

So with present day CPUs, how can we make less heat? Use less distance in the CPU from place to place inside it.

This is where we come to your 3 nm (nanometers). This is the measurement of the width (of a part called the "gate") of one single transistor inside the CPU. Its 3 times smaller than say a 9 nm gate technology CPU. Our new CPU has 3 times less distance to travel which also means it needs less electricity to do the same work. Less electricity also means less heat because there fewer electrons rubbing against the conductor's resistance.

So less distance to travel, and fewer electrons needed to travel. Thats good stuff for making faster CPUs!

So now you ask, why are we stopping at 3nm? Why not 1nm right now? In short, we don't have the technology for it yet. CPUs are made with, believe it or not a photographic process! Light in the specific shape of the CPU circuit is shined on specially prepared silicon. Chemicals make part of that silicon conduct, and some part NOT conduct. This is semiconductor lithography. I could go down a whole separate line for this, but this isn't what you asked so I'll leave off right here.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 year ago

please continue, sir. i like what i'm reading.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

Don't forget about capacitance. Longer distances == more capacitance to charge up on state transitions. This wastes power and puts a ceiling on how quickly you can switch.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I thought the big hold back for this size was the shenanigans around quantum tunneling messing up data in the CPU. How is that accounted for?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

IIRC, anything less than 7-10nm is mostly marketing-speak anyway. Tunneling is a real limit at that scale, but chipmakers keep advertising smaller numbers as a performance-class figure rather than a physical size.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I was thinking the same thing

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Really awesome answer, thanks!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I've never seen through of Friction in a Chip but this makes sense! Thank you that was a very very clear explanation!