355
Don't ever stop (thelemmy.club)
submitted 22 hours ago by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
109 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 3 points 12 hours ago (8 children)

Yeah it sucks. But, y'know, if the imperialism and genocide is invariant between the options, I'm still gonna vote for the one doing fewer other terrible things 🤷🏼

Obviously I'm also going to do everything I can to get to a point where I don't have an imperialist, genocidal government. Mutual aid, canvassing for leftists in the primaries, political organization, developing community, taking over small municipalities, labor organization, etc.

All of which is gonna be a lot harder now that this side has declared antifascists to be a terrorist organization, and arrests people for pamphlets.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
    •
  • [–] 4 points 10 hours ago (3 children)

    That's a point we can debate (not that I feel like doing so right now, but it's at least connected to reality enough to be worth debating). My problem is with the parent commenter, who's acting like all the "purity tests" are about trivial minutae and not how many children each candidate wants to bomb to death.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 9 hours ago (2 children)

    To be fair, the original post is about leftist infighting, not liberals. A lot of the leftist infighting is about trivial minutae.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 12 hours ago (3 children)

    But, y’know, if the imperialism and genocide is invariant between the options, I’m still gonna vote for the one doing fewer other terrible things 🤷🏼

    What's the worst that could happen if I let the democrats know that not even genocide will cost them the election? What's the worst that could happen by further entrenching the oligarchic uniparty? Surely the democrats won't ever put me in the camps!

    Obviously I’m also going to do everything I can to get to a point where I don’t have an imperialist, genocidal government. Mutual aid, canvassing for leftists in the primaries, political organization, developing community, taking over small municipalities, labor organization, etc.

    No critique here, glad to see at least one blue dog understands there's other tools.

    All of which is gonna be a lot harder now that this side has declared antifascists to be a terrorist organization, and arrests people for pamphlets.

    As opposed to the other side who also arrested peaceful protesters on bogus charges. Who also beat up protesters. Who also broke up strikes. Who also hounded leftist organisers.
    The difference is that the media is more critical of it now. People are much more agitated under Trump. Organizing is easier in many ways.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 12 hours ago (2 children)

    if I let the democrats know that not even genocide will cost them the election

    I keep seeing variations on this, and no one has been able to explain to me how that communication vector works. When has that ever worked? They just double down or shift right to try impotently to scoop "moderate Republicans". If they really are a uniparty, do you think they really care that much about winning or losing anyway? They're gonna keep supporting genocide no matter how many times they lose.

    The point isn't to try to persuade the DNC (by doing literally nothing), the point is to slow the bleeding while we build what comes next.

    glad to see at least one blue dog understands there's other tools.

    Those are the main tools. Voting is the "other" tool. But it's an easy tool, and it scales well with community organization. Seriously, take over a small municipality.

    As opposed to the other side who also arrested peaceful protesters on bogus charges. Who also beat up protesters. Who also broke up strikes. Who also hounded leftist organisers

    Exactly. "Also"s don't matter when you make the choice. The things that are the same are gonna be the same either way. What matters are the differences, and there are obvious differences. Like labelling "aintifa" a terrorist organization.

    People are much more agitated under Trump. Organizing is easier in many ways.

    Of course, on the backs of already marginalized people. I don't have the stomach to knowingly increase the suffering of others for political gain.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 12 hours ago (1 child)

    I keep seeing variations on this, and no one has been able to explain to me how that communication vector works. When has that ever worked?

    Pretty simple. If I am doing a genocide, and you vote for me, it makes it clear you are at least apathetic about genocide.

    The point isn’t to try to persuade the DNC (by doing literally nothing), the point is to slow the bleeding while we build what comes next.

    Voting for the DNC does not slow the bleeding. Voting for the DNC makes it harder to build anything else.

    Those are the main tools. Voting is the “other” tool. But it’s an easy tool, and it scales well with community organization. Seriously, take over a small municipality.

    Depends on your analysis on electorialism in modern day America. I think it has some value locally, and in bigger elections its only positive use is to build momentum for leftist parties.

    "Also"s don’t matter when you make the choice. The things that are the same are gonna be the same either way. What matters are the differences, and there are obvious differences. Like labelling “aintifa” a terrorist organization.

    So not exactly, because I am arguing there is not practical difference between the two. I suppose the republicans are more overt, which is a positive, since it makes even liberals reel.

    I don’t have the stomach to knowingly increase the suffering of others for political gain.

    Sure you do. That's what you do by voting for democrats.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] -1 points 11 hours ago

    If I am doing a genocide, and you vote for me, it makes it clear you are at least apathetic about genocide.

    That doesn't imply the converse, it doesn't mean that not voting communicates any information about your stance on genocide, it just makes it clear that you're apathetic in general.

    Voting for the DNC makes it harder to build anything else.

    How? The GOP is actively arresting people trying to build anything else. Attempts to co-opt a movement isn't harder to overcome than prison.

    I suppose the republicans are more overt, which is a positive, since it makes even liberals reel.

    Again, they are causing additional suffering. You think it's a positive because you're not one of the additional people suffering. My empathy won't allow me to ignore the additional suffering caused by my action, or lack thereof. I can't just take an ideological stand when I know it will increase the suffering of others.

    Constant suffering I've learned to cope with, since I'd be catatonic otherwise. But the people only on one list? I can't just stand by, I have to at least save them. I don't know how you can do it, my body physically revulses at just the thought of standing by even if the difference is only one person. I don't think I'd feel human.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent