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[–] 19 points 22 hours ago (25 children)

I look at it this way, for centuries now man has done everything he can to destroy, defile and interfere with nature. Clear-cutting forests, strip-mining mountains, poisoning the atmosphere, over fishing the oceans, polluting the rivers and lakes. Destroying wetlands and aquifers. So when nature strikes back and smacks man in the head and kicks him in the nuts. I enjoy that.

Literal ecofascism

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  • [–] [S] 30 points 21 hours ago* (9 children)

    Ecofascism is an ideology which advocates for things such as population reduction for the supposed purpose of helping the environment.

    The quote that you posted does not advocate for killing people. It doesn't say that he wants people to be killed. The quote says that when people die from natural disasters, it feels as if nature is operating in self defense. The absurdity is that he's ascribing the characteristics of a human to the planet itself. He's ascribing intent to the planet, which in my opinion is not a conscious being, though some people believe that it is.

    The idea that the planet (Earth) is a being capable of having intent and performing self defense is absurd, that is the joke.

    Ecofascists want to kill people. George Carlin is saying that the planet is killing people.

    You posted the same comment when I posted this same thread 4 years ago and I posted the same response 4 years ago. https://hexbear.net/comment/2812608

    Also it's a comedy show, not a political rally. I am becoming increasingly baffled at the number of people that think jokes need to be truth. Jokes are supposed to be absurd. Humor is a subversion of expectations. Chuds think that comedy is when you say things that are true but mean. Comedy is the absurd and unexpected.

    In my experience, George Carlin is a mostly a "punch up" type of comedian.

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  • [–] 5 points 20 hours ago

    He's ascribing intent to the planet, which in my opinion is not a conscious being, though some people believe that it is.

    I don't think we need to hedge this statement outside of an explicitly religious conversation.

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  • [–] 4 points 20 hours ago (7 children)

    The idea that the planet (Earth) is capable of having intent and performing self defense is absurd, that is the joke.

    Absurd to who? There is a long history across many religions of attributing natural disasters to karmic divine wrath. You yourself acknowledge that some people think the planet is a conscious being.

    Ecofascists want to kill people.

    The first step to doing something is getting people to be okay with it when it happens.

    Comedy is the absurd and unexpected.

    Then echoing a common and sincere sentiment of first world Malthusians isn't very good comedy, is it?

    people that think jokes need to be truth

    Jokes need to be in some way distinguishable from actual common reactionary sentiment.

    You posted the same comment when I posted this same thread 4 years ago

    Okay, and? Am I still under some moratorium I was unaware of?

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  • [–] [S] 11 points 20 hours ago (5 children)

    Even if you believe that the Earth is a conscious living being, the Earth itself can't be an ecofascist.

    Jokes need to be in some way distinguishable from actual common reactionary sentiment.

    Maybe the distinguishing factor is that the quote comes from a 30 minute monologue where he also talks about killing cops and right wing uncles.

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  • [–] 3 points 20 hours ago (3 children)

    Even if you believe that the Earth is a conscious living being, the Earth itself can't be an ecofascist.

    Could you elaborate on this claim? I don't think it's politically meaningful one way or the other, but I'm very interested in hearing your reasoning.

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  • [–] [S] 8 points 19 hours ago* (2 children)

    Fascism is a human ideology which seeks to enforce class hierarchies of humans. If the planet is a conscious living being, it exists outside of the human hierarchy, most likely above the human hierarchy.

    Fascists are people who want to enforce these oppressive hierarchies to solidify their own position on the human hierarchy. A planetary being exists outside of this concept.

    Let's say you are outside and you see a flying bird. Do you ever worry that the bird could be a fascist? No, because the bird exists outside of this concept.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 hours ago

    There is only human ideologies. So saying that the planet being, which we make up, even if it was true, can't be fascist for that reason is a self-defeating argument.

    If I ascribe agency to any being I also can ascribe my ideology. If the point is that it is pretty much nonsensical I agree, but so is fascism. It is a self-defeating death cult.

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  • [–] 4 points 19 hours ago

    I think if a bird effectively had a human mind, it absolutely could be a fascist. I don't really think morphology or genetics are meaningful indicators here.

    The reason fascism is only a human concept in our world is that, as far as we have any evidence to believe, it (as well as any other "grand" political ideology) is something only human consciousness is capable of among surviving species. The fundamental political dynamic is not necessarily tied to species, we just see that in our present world only humans are capable of ascribing to it.

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  • [–] 13 points 19 hours ago (5 children)

    Misanthropy and ecofsscism are different things. Like, I cant speak for George Carlin but as someone who cares about both human and non human animals, I've got a pretty grim view on humanity as well. We are extinction machines and have been ever since we had spears to throw and hafe only gotten better at wiping out species the longer we've gone. I'm a human and so are a lot of my friends, and I hope we can do better one day and think we do have the capacity to do so. But it's been an awful track record for the last 10 000 years. The idea of even not factory farming animals is basically socially off the table for the overwhelming majority of people let alone having any environmental concern that isn't human centric. I think it would be a better planet had apes never figured out tools. But we are stuck here now and there's no sense in dwelling on what could have been, but it's a sentiment I understand.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 hours ago*

    To be fair given that there were five or so previous mass extinction events before this one something else would have eventually come to take us out even if apes never learned how to use tools.

    This is the moment where we either consciously take up the reins of the planet to harmoniously guide and protect it's development or we will unconsciously kill ourselves. Literal do or die shit

    Stopping our own self inflicted mass extinction event is just the tutorial mission before we face many more dangerous terrestrial extinction events

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  • [–] 5 points 18 hours ago (3 children)

    Misanthropy and ecofsscism are different things.

    Good point, some misanthropes just wind up celebrating school shootings on 8chan

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  • [–] 6 points 18 hours ago (1 child)

    some misanthropes just wind up celebrating school shootings

    Carlin did that too in his comedy routine. His bit is being a misanthrope. Whether he truly believes in it or not or whether there's a difference is up to you to decide.

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  • [–] 4 points 16 hours ago

    He died before the times would reveal his exact colors and im kinda thankful. I think he'd be cool but its wishful thinking as well. His angry misanthropy stuff is a bit much for me now cause it's 25 years later than these bits and i'm not 12 anymore. I like his older more silly stuff nowadays. I'm a language nerd and also really weird about semantics and his material like "I will not be getting on the plane. I'll be getting in the plane" is the kind of shit I really like about his work. I relate to that shit hard

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  • [–] 12 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

    The quotes in the article are pretty disgusting but I feel what like you quoted here isn't eco fascism? Maybe I don't know what it is.

    I guess he's not blaming capital? It's not like socialists have never polluted or damaged an ecosystem though.

    Orca's sinking boats, wolves eating ranchers, beavers flooding a housing development, those sound awesome to me and I've seen plenty of people celebrating such things on here.

    what-time-is-it ?

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  • [–] 7 points 20 hours ago

    Orca's sinking boats, wolves eating ranchers, beavers flooding a housing development, those sound awesome to me and I've seen plenty of people celebrating such things on here.

    The difference in basically every one of those cases is the perception of nature attacking the rich and powerful or directly fighting back against abusers (there are also stories about elephants that I've seen come up once or twice for that reason). That is not the same as killing "humans" in a generalized sense as a form of collective reprisal or whatever.

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  • [–] 7 points 22 hours ago* (5 children)

    Isn't George Carlin the guy that said "the planet is doing fine, the people are fucked" and said it was a selfish thing for humanity to try to reverse climate change, like what?

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  • [–] 8 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

    First part. Not the second. He was saying that framing it like you're saving the planet when really we're trying to save ourselves comes off as arrogant. The vast majority of George Carlin jokes are about semantics

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  • [–] 3 points 17 hours ago

    Isn't George Carlin the guy that said "the planet is doing fine, the people are fucked"

    The joke was able how "saving the planet" was self-aggrandizing bullshit from people who are obviously more concerned about saving themselves or saving humanity rather than saving the planet. If there was a choice between saving humanity or saving the planet minus humans, of course most people would elect to save humanity over the planet. To think otherwise just makes you some ecofascist.

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