Like on principle, I know that the writer’s and actor’s guild and union shit is all good. I don’t think all the success from a movie or show should go 100% to the company, but it still feels weird saying that a Hollywood actor is working class.

What do y’all think? Am I just being a dumbass?

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[–] 8 points 1 week ago (1 child)

It's important first to disentangle the modern vernacular term of 'working class' from class definitions described in the 19th century. A proletarian is defined by their relation to the means of production, i.e. that they sell their labor for a wage and that is the primary source of their wealth. the term 'working class', on the other hand, is colloquial and not strictly defined (although I would remind everyone that all categories are fake.)

But beyond this, it's also important to consider that in the intervening couple centuries ownership of the means of production has had some innovations to manage the contradictions of capitalist production. For instance, there are a great many people who labor for a wage, but who have a significant amount of wealth invested in the stock market in the form of a 401(k) or an IRA. This blurs the lines somewhat, because while they have an interest in their wage and conditions etc. as a laborer, they now have an interest in the broad growth of the economy as well, which has a different relation to production.

So for an actor, we have to first establish exactly what the question we're asking is, and then evaluate what their primary relation to production is and how this affects their interests and how we might identify them as part of this or that class. I would argue that merely using the tools of yestercentury is insufficient to this task. I would also remind that class as described such is an analytic tool and not a direct means of determining whether someone is on this or that side of a divide or if they're 'good'.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago

    A lot of good comments in this thread but this one is especially important, imo

    • Categories are abstract tools that can describe aspects of the world, but don't materially exist.

    • The aspects of the world that we try to understand through categorization are dynamic, thus the categories and signifiers we use must also be dynamic.

    • When using categories we should always remember that they are, by necessity, reductive; we are deliberately emphasizing variables we deem operative or useful, at the expense of others. Those unimportant variables may rise to importance or even dominance in certain situations or at different scales.

    • The words we use in everyday discussion and especially in introducing people to new concepts are just shorthand for (hopefully) much more complex concepts. A static two-class model is easier to teach, just like we might assume frictionless vacuums to teach intro to physics. But to actually use the science in the real world needs more than freshman-level concepts. Problematically, the same words get used at every level (e.g. proletariat and bourgeoisie) so there isn't like a semantic impetus to move into more complex understandings. A lot of people get stuck at that point.

    • We have to be very careful not to flip symbol and referent (falsely imbuing class signifiers with class character) or forget the core essence or purpose of our categories (using class character as a moral classification rather than a political-economic one).

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