Again, propaganda is not the central issue for me here. But do you seriously think that an entire country that isn't allowed to access outside media isn't completely controlled by propaganda? Most of the US falls for it and that's a problem, but we can still see outside perspectives. I was fortunate enough to go to top schools and I don't even live in the US anymore. I was raised religious and said the pledge in school and all that like you said, but all that is completely obvious propaganda to me at this point, meaning I managed to escape it. What percentage of NK people can do the same? It's literally illegal to have SK media in the dictatorship, let alone leave the country. If 2 parties don't make a democracy how much worse is it to have one "party", ie family?

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue at this point. I've repeatedly said US has tons of propaganda. I don't think the US is a great place and it's obviously falling further into fascism every day. I guess what it comes down to in this comparison of only 2 countries is which one would you want to live in? When I was first having this argument with tankies a few years ago Demented Don wasn't yet back in office, so the comparison was even more stark.