▲ 109 ▼ Countries where people are losing faith in capitalism. (thelemmy.club) submitted 3 weeks ago by dessalines@lemmy.ml to c/usefulinfographics@lemmy.ml 36 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] BottleBoardBakon@lemmy.ml 14 points 3 weeks ago (3 children) China being that low surprises me permalink fedilink source hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 1 point 3 hours ago bear in mind that china basically did the industrial revolution in like, a single generation.. if you go from people being subsistence farmers, to living in dogshit housing in dirty cities, to something that the rest of the world considers mind-bogglingly futuristic; all in such short time that your parents have photos of their childhood farm.. yeah capitalism probably seems pretty decent then. permalink fedilink source parent [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml [S] 14 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) It's still majority communist of course, but I think a part of it is just that political education and affiliation to the communist party isn't a mandatory requirement for the general population, so a lot of the population of the PRC is apolitical. Also since the CPC runs things really well, (ie things like wages going up 4x in the past 30 years), politics becomes a less vital / life and death part of your life. permalink fedilink source parent [–] chobeat@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 child) it's the only place where capitalism does more good than harm for the average person at the moment. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml [S] 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 child) The PRC is not capitalist, it's a mixed economy where the socialist / state-planned sector predominates, and a smaller, restricted capitalist sector. Is China State Capitalist? The backbone of the economy is state ownership and socialist planning. 24 / 25 of the top revenue companies are state-owned and planned. 70% of the top 500 companies are State-owned. 1, 2 The largest bank, construction, electricity, and energy companies in the world, are CPC controlled entities, subject to the 5 year plans laid out by the central committee. Workplace democracy in action in the CPC. Is modern day china communist? Is it staying true to communist values? Didn't China go Capitalist with Deng Xiaoping? Didn't it liberalize its economy? Is China's drastic decrease in poverty a result of the increase in free market capitalist policies? Is the CPC committed to communism? The Long Game and Its Contradictions. Audiobook The myth of Chinese state capitalism. Did Deng really betray Chinese socialism? Tsinghua University- Is Socialism with Chinese Characteristics real socialism, or is it state Capitalism? Isn't China revisionist for having a capitalist sector of the economy, and working with capitalists? Why isn't it fully planned like the USSR was? Castro on why both China and Vietnam are socialist countries. Roderic Day - China has billionaires. What is socialism with Chinese characteristics (SWCC)? How is SWCC not revisionist? How is it any different from Gorbachev's market reforms?, 2 Domenico Losurdo - is China state capitalist?, 2 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ttayh@lemmy.zip 3 points 3 weeks ago* (1 child) I agree that China is not state capitalist, it very much is socialist. But I'd argue they use capitalism as a tool (not as an ideology). I.e., use capitalist modes of market development to socialize production in new markets. Then socialize the capital after that's established. I see this as one of the ways they've developed their light industry sections I'm gonna be honest, I haven't read all of your links, we may very well be mostly agreeing permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 child) We need to detangle "markets" from "capitalism," just like public ownership in capitalist economies is not "a slice of socialism." Economies are deeply interwoven and support the principal aspect of the economy, this is what determines identity. The US is not a socialist economy for having a public sector, nor is this public sector a socialist sector. There are private and public sectors, what determined the identity is the principal aspect, as well as the class that dominates the state. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ttayh@lemmy.zip 1 point 3 weeks ago Yes I agree, when I said markets I was thinking of, eg, EVs. Where China lets private companies compete and expand in a very (imo) capitalistic fashion to create the market for EVs itself. If China continues to be socialist they'll socialize the capital when it is developed "enough" This doesn't mean China is capitalist, they are using it. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 1 point 3 hours ago bear in mind that china basically did the industrial revolution in like, a single generation.. if you go from people being subsistence farmers, to living in dogshit housing in dirty cities, to something that the rest of the world considers mind-bogglingly futuristic; all in such short time that your parents have photos of their childhood farm.. yeah capitalism probably seems pretty decent then. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml [S] 14 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) It's still majority communist of course, but I think a part of it is just that political education and affiliation to the communist party isn't a mandatory requirement for the general population, so a lot of the population of the PRC is apolitical. Also since the CPC runs things really well, (ie things like wages going up 4x in the past 30 years), politics becomes a less vital / life and death part of your life. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] chobeat@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 child) it's the only place where capitalism does more good than harm for the average person at the moment. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml [S] 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 child) The PRC is not capitalist, it's a mixed economy where the socialist / state-planned sector predominates, and a smaller, restricted capitalist sector. Is China State Capitalist? The backbone of the economy is state ownership and socialist planning. 24 / 25 of the top revenue companies are state-owned and planned. 70% of the top 500 companies are State-owned. 1, 2 The largest bank, construction, electricity, and energy companies in the world, are CPC controlled entities, subject to the 5 year plans laid out by the central committee. Workplace democracy in action in the CPC. Is modern day china communist? Is it staying true to communist values? Didn't China go Capitalist with Deng Xiaoping? Didn't it liberalize its economy? Is China's drastic decrease in poverty a result of the increase in free market capitalist policies? Is the CPC committed to communism? The Long Game and Its Contradictions. Audiobook The myth of Chinese state capitalism. Did Deng really betray Chinese socialism? Tsinghua University- Is Socialism with Chinese Characteristics real socialism, or is it state Capitalism? Isn't China revisionist for having a capitalist sector of the economy, and working with capitalists? Why isn't it fully planned like the USSR was? Castro on why both China and Vietnam are socialist countries. Roderic Day - China has billionaires. What is socialism with Chinese characteristics (SWCC)? How is SWCC not revisionist? How is it any different from Gorbachev's market reforms?, 2 Domenico Losurdo - is China state capitalist?, 2 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ttayh@lemmy.zip 3 points 3 weeks ago* (1 child) I agree that China is not state capitalist, it very much is socialist. But I'd argue they use capitalism as a tool (not as an ideology). I.e., use capitalist modes of market development to socialize production in new markets. Then socialize the capital after that's established. I see this as one of the ways they've developed their light industry sections I'm gonna be honest, I haven't read all of your links, we may very well be mostly agreeing permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 child) We need to detangle "markets" from "capitalism," just like public ownership in capitalist economies is not "a slice of socialism." Economies are deeply interwoven and support the principal aspect of the economy, this is what determines identity. The US is not a socialist economy for having a public sector, nor is this public sector a socialist sector. There are private and public sectors, what determined the identity is the principal aspect, as well as the class that dominates the state. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ttayh@lemmy.zip 1 point 3 weeks ago Yes I agree, when I said markets I was thinking of, eg, EVs. Where China lets private companies compete and expand in a very (imo) capitalistic fashion to create the market for EVs itself. If China continues to be socialist they'll socialize the capital when it is developed "enough" This doesn't mean China is capitalist, they are using it. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml [S] 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 child) The PRC is not capitalist, it's a mixed economy where the socialist / state-planned sector predominates, and a smaller, restricted capitalist sector. Is China State Capitalist? The backbone of the economy is state ownership and socialist planning. 24 / 25 of the top revenue companies are state-owned and planned. 70% of the top 500 companies are State-owned. 1, 2 The largest bank, construction, electricity, and energy companies in the world, are CPC controlled entities, subject to the 5 year plans laid out by the central committee. Workplace democracy in action in the CPC. Is modern day china communist? Is it staying true to communist values? Didn't China go Capitalist with Deng Xiaoping? Didn't it liberalize its economy? Is China's drastic decrease in poverty a result of the increase in free market capitalist policies? Is the CPC committed to communism? The Long Game and Its Contradictions. Audiobook The myth of Chinese state capitalism. Did Deng really betray Chinese socialism? Tsinghua University- Is Socialism with Chinese Characteristics real socialism, or is it state Capitalism? Isn't China revisionist for having a capitalist sector of the economy, and working with capitalists? Why isn't it fully planned like the USSR was? Castro on why both China and Vietnam are socialist countries. Roderic Day - China has billionaires. What is socialism with Chinese characteristics (SWCC)? How is SWCC not revisionist? How is it any different from Gorbachev's market reforms?, 2 Domenico Losurdo - is China state capitalist?, 2 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ttayh@lemmy.zip 3 points 3 weeks ago* (1 child) I agree that China is not state capitalist, it very much is socialist. But I'd argue they use capitalism as a tool (not as an ideology). I.e., use capitalist modes of market development to socialize production in new markets. Then socialize the capital after that's established. I see this as one of the ways they've developed their light industry sections I'm gonna be honest, I haven't read all of your links, we may very well be mostly agreeing permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 child) We need to detangle "markets" from "capitalism," just like public ownership in capitalist economies is not "a slice of socialism." Economies are deeply interwoven and support the principal aspect of the economy, this is what determines identity. The US is not a socialist economy for having a public sector, nor is this public sector a socialist sector. There are private and public sectors, what determined the identity is the principal aspect, as well as the class that dominates the state. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ttayh@lemmy.zip 1 point 3 weeks ago Yes I agree, when I said markets I was thinking of, eg, EVs. Where China lets private companies compete and expand in a very (imo) capitalistic fashion to create the market for EVs itself. If China continues to be socialist they'll socialize the capital when it is developed "enough" This doesn't mean China is capitalist, they are using it. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ttayh@lemmy.zip 3 points 3 weeks ago* (1 child) I agree that China is not state capitalist, it very much is socialist. But I'd argue they use capitalism as a tool (not as an ideology). I.e., use capitalist modes of market development to socialize production in new markets. Then socialize the capital after that's established. I see this as one of the ways they've developed their light industry sections I'm gonna be honest, I haven't read all of your links, we may very well be mostly agreeing permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 child) We need to detangle "markets" from "capitalism," just like public ownership in capitalist economies is not "a slice of socialism." Economies are deeply interwoven and support the principal aspect of the economy, this is what determines identity. The US is not a socialist economy for having a public sector, nor is this public sector a socialist sector. There are private and public sectors, what determined the identity is the principal aspect, as well as the class that dominates the state. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ttayh@lemmy.zip 1 point 3 weeks ago Yes I agree, when I said markets I was thinking of, eg, EVs. Where China lets private companies compete and expand in a very (imo) capitalistic fashion to create the market for EVs itself. If China continues to be socialist they'll socialize the capital when it is developed "enough" This doesn't mean China is capitalist, they are using it. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 child) We need to detangle "markets" from "capitalism," just like public ownership in capitalist economies is not "a slice of socialism." Economies are deeply interwoven and support the principal aspect of the economy, this is what determines identity. The US is not a socialist economy for having a public sector, nor is this public sector a socialist sector. There are private and public sectors, what determined the identity is the principal aspect, as well as the class that dominates the state. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ttayh@lemmy.zip 1 point 3 weeks ago Yes I agree, when I said markets I was thinking of, eg, EVs. Where China lets private companies compete and expand in a very (imo) capitalistic fashion to create the market for EVs itself. If China continues to be socialist they'll socialize the capital when it is developed "enough" This doesn't mean China is capitalist, they are using it. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ttayh@lemmy.zip 1 point 3 weeks ago Yes I agree, when I said markets I was thinking of, eg, EVs. Where China lets private companies compete and expand in a very (imo) capitalistic fashion to create the market for EVs itself. If China continues to be socialist they'll socialize the capital when it is developed "enough" This doesn't mean China is capitalist, they are using it. permalink fedilink source parent
