▲ 170 ▼ 'Rust makes coding fun again': Why Linux is moving away from C, according to Greg Kroah-Hartman (www.zdnet.com) submitted 1 month ago by HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org to c/linux@lemmy.ml 99 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] anon_8675309@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago (2 children) Rust would be better if the rust community wasn’t so up everyone’s ass about using rust. permalink fedilink source hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org [S] 10 points 1 month ago Attacking the messenger because you don't have any good argument against the message? This is the Linux kernel project, one of the technically most conservative projects in the FLOSS community. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MangoCats@feddit.it 3 points 1 month ago (2 children) Rust is C++ with nanny nags, and immature libraries, and a lot of improvements that 30+ years of C++ has made obvious today which weren't so obvious back then. The worst thing about Rust, from my perspective, is that it really seems to push programmers to "multithread all the things" because Rust offers the delusion that you can do that more safely now. Newsflash: all the things do not need to be multithreaded, there's an awful lot of code that's just peachy in a single threaded implementation, thank you very much, and multithreading it is just inviting trouble for no significant gains. Mostly, a good library on C++ (Qt used to be one of those, but it's started becoming annoying in the past few years) offers a lot of what Rust enforces at the language level. Stick to the library implementations and you're safe. Color outside the lines when the library isn't up to what you need - but do so carefully. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Zamundaaa@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 1 month ago Mostly, a good library on C++ (Qt used to be one of those, but it's started becoming annoying in the past few years) offers a lot of what Rust enforces at the language level. I like C++, but let's not pretend that's actually true. Qt is completely full of really unsafe APIs, most of them quite old by now. It certainly doesn't offer anywhere close to any safety Rust provides. Even something as innocent as passing a pointer to Qt's javascript engine can end up in use after free, and the signal+slot stuff goes wrong real fast once you do need multi threading. (which is not to single out Qt specifically, the STL has plenty of really stupid and unsafe APIs as well) permalink fedilink source parent [–] HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org [S] -1 points 1 month ago (1 child) Newsflash: all the things do not need to be multithreaded, there’s an awful lot of code that’s just peachy in a single threaded implementation, thank you very much, and multithreading it is just inviting trouble for no significant gains. I am waiting for your single-threaded fork of the Linux kernel. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MangoCats@feddit.it 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) What percentage of Rust programmers contribute to the Linux kernel? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silasmariner@programming.dev 2 points 1 month ago (1 child) What's a rust programmer? Someone who's ever written anything in it? If the same holds true for C, probably a higher percentage than of 'C programmers' given how long that's been a teaching language lol permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MangoCats@feddit.it 1 point 1 month ago* (1 child) Well, academic exercises for grades, I'd call Rust students. Throw away programs people do for fun, I'd call Rust hobbyists. Pretty much anyone else, doing it for money (a living: roof over head, food on table), or open source contribution - I think they qualify. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silasmariner@programming.dev 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) In that case, stil reckon a higher proportion ofl Rust devs contribute to Linux than C devs permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MangoCats@feddit.it 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) Don't be so sure... I work for "megacorp" and about a year ago word came from on-high: "thou shalt not C (or C++, not that they know the difference) anymore. We are in mortal fear of embarassment that we allowed a mistake to be made that our all seeing oversight should have prevented by mandating the use of safe tools." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silasmariner@programming.dev 1 point 1 month ago That's still rather recently, and there's rather a large stock of 'before people' hanging around. But I agree inasmuch as it'll change as time goes by and one day you'll be right. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org [S] 10 points 1 month ago Attacking the messenger because you don't have any good argument against the message? This is the Linux kernel project, one of the technically most conservative projects in the FLOSS community. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MangoCats@feddit.it 3 points 1 month ago (2 children) Rust is C++ with nanny nags, and immature libraries, and a lot of improvements that 30+ years of C++ has made obvious today which weren't so obvious back then. The worst thing about Rust, from my perspective, is that it really seems to push programmers to "multithread all the things" because Rust offers the delusion that you can do that more safely now. Newsflash: all the things do not need to be multithreaded, there's an awful lot of code that's just peachy in a single threaded implementation, thank you very much, and multithreading it is just inviting trouble for no significant gains. Mostly, a good library on C++ (Qt used to be one of those, but it's started becoming annoying in the past few years) offers a lot of what Rust enforces at the language level. Stick to the library implementations and you're safe. Color outside the lines when the library isn't up to what you need - but do so carefully. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Zamundaaa@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 1 month ago Mostly, a good library on C++ (Qt used to be one of those, but it's started becoming annoying in the past few years) offers a lot of what Rust enforces at the language level. I like C++, but let's not pretend that's actually true. Qt is completely full of really unsafe APIs, most of them quite old by now. It certainly doesn't offer anywhere close to any safety Rust provides. Even something as innocent as passing a pointer to Qt's javascript engine can end up in use after free, and the signal+slot stuff goes wrong real fast once you do need multi threading. (which is not to single out Qt specifically, the STL has plenty of really stupid and unsafe APIs as well) permalink fedilink source parent [–] HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org [S] -1 points 1 month ago (1 child) Newsflash: all the things do not need to be multithreaded, there’s an awful lot of code that’s just peachy in a single threaded implementation, thank you very much, and multithreading it is just inviting trouble for no significant gains. I am waiting for your single-threaded fork of the Linux kernel. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MangoCats@feddit.it 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) What percentage of Rust programmers contribute to the Linux kernel? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silasmariner@programming.dev 2 points 1 month ago (1 child) What's a rust programmer? Someone who's ever written anything in it? If the same holds true for C, probably a higher percentage than of 'C programmers' given how long that's been a teaching language lol permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MangoCats@feddit.it 1 point 1 month ago* (1 child) Well, academic exercises for grades, I'd call Rust students. Throw away programs people do for fun, I'd call Rust hobbyists. Pretty much anyone else, doing it for money (a living: roof over head, food on table), or open source contribution - I think they qualify. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silasmariner@programming.dev 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) In that case, stil reckon a higher proportion ofl Rust devs contribute to Linux than C devs permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MangoCats@feddit.it 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) Don't be so sure... I work for "megacorp" and about a year ago word came from on-high: "thou shalt not C (or C++, not that they know the difference) anymore. We are in mortal fear of embarassment that we allowed a mistake to be made that our all seeing oversight should have prevented by mandating the use of safe tools." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silasmariner@programming.dev 1 point 1 month ago That's still rather recently, and there's rather a large stock of 'before people' hanging around. But I agree inasmuch as it'll change as time goes by and one day you'll be right. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Zamundaaa@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 1 month ago Mostly, a good library on C++ (Qt used to be one of those, but it's started becoming annoying in the past few years) offers a lot of what Rust enforces at the language level. I like C++, but let's not pretend that's actually true. Qt is completely full of really unsafe APIs, most of them quite old by now. It certainly doesn't offer anywhere close to any safety Rust provides. Even something as innocent as passing a pointer to Qt's javascript engine can end up in use after free, and the signal+slot stuff goes wrong real fast once you do need multi threading. (which is not to single out Qt specifically, the STL has plenty of really stupid and unsafe APIs as well) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org [S] -1 points 1 month ago (1 child) Newsflash: all the things do not need to be multithreaded, there’s an awful lot of code that’s just peachy in a single threaded implementation, thank you very much, and multithreading it is just inviting trouble for no significant gains. I am waiting for your single-threaded fork of the Linux kernel. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MangoCats@feddit.it 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) What percentage of Rust programmers contribute to the Linux kernel? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silasmariner@programming.dev 2 points 1 month ago (1 child) What's a rust programmer? Someone who's ever written anything in it? If the same holds true for C, probably a higher percentage than of 'C programmers' given how long that's been a teaching language lol permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MangoCats@feddit.it 1 point 1 month ago* (1 child) Well, academic exercises for grades, I'd call Rust students. Throw away programs people do for fun, I'd call Rust hobbyists. Pretty much anyone else, doing it for money (a living: roof over head, food on table), or open source contribution - I think they qualify. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silasmariner@programming.dev 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) In that case, stil reckon a higher proportion ofl Rust devs contribute to Linux than C devs permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MangoCats@feddit.it 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) Don't be so sure... I work for "megacorp" and about a year ago word came from on-high: "thou shalt not C (or C++, not that they know the difference) anymore. We are in mortal fear of embarassment that we allowed a mistake to be made that our all seeing oversight should have prevented by mandating the use of safe tools." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silasmariner@programming.dev 1 point 1 month ago That's still rather recently, and there's rather a large stock of 'before people' hanging around. But I agree inasmuch as it'll change as time goes by and one day you'll be right. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MangoCats@feddit.it 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) What percentage of Rust programmers contribute to the Linux kernel? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silasmariner@programming.dev 2 points 1 month ago (1 child) What's a rust programmer? Someone who's ever written anything in it? If the same holds true for C, probably a higher percentage than of 'C programmers' given how long that's been a teaching language lol permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MangoCats@feddit.it 1 point 1 month ago* (1 child) Well, academic exercises for grades, I'd call Rust students. Throw away programs people do for fun, I'd call Rust hobbyists. Pretty much anyone else, doing it for money (a living: roof over head, food on table), or open source contribution - I think they qualify. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silasmariner@programming.dev 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) In that case, stil reckon a higher proportion ofl Rust devs contribute to Linux than C devs permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MangoCats@feddit.it 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) Don't be so sure... I work for "megacorp" and about a year ago word came from on-high: "thou shalt not C (or C++, not that they know the difference) anymore. We are in mortal fear of embarassment that we allowed a mistake to be made that our all seeing oversight should have prevented by mandating the use of safe tools." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silasmariner@programming.dev 1 point 1 month ago That's still rather recently, and there's rather a large stock of 'before people' hanging around. But I agree inasmuch as it'll change as time goes by and one day you'll be right. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] silasmariner@programming.dev 2 points 1 month ago (1 child) What's a rust programmer? Someone who's ever written anything in it? If the same holds true for C, probably a higher percentage than of 'C programmers' given how long that's been a teaching language lol permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MangoCats@feddit.it 1 point 1 month ago* (1 child) Well, academic exercises for grades, I'd call Rust students. Throw away programs people do for fun, I'd call Rust hobbyists. Pretty much anyone else, doing it for money (a living: roof over head, food on table), or open source contribution - I think they qualify. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silasmariner@programming.dev 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) In that case, stil reckon a higher proportion ofl Rust devs contribute to Linux than C devs permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MangoCats@feddit.it 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) Don't be so sure... I work for "megacorp" and about a year ago word came from on-high: "thou shalt not C (or C++, not that they know the difference) anymore. We are in mortal fear of embarassment that we allowed a mistake to be made that our all seeing oversight should have prevented by mandating the use of safe tools." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silasmariner@programming.dev 1 point 1 month ago That's still rather recently, and there's rather a large stock of 'before people' hanging around. But I agree inasmuch as it'll change as time goes by and one day you'll be right. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MangoCats@feddit.it 1 point 1 month ago* (1 child) Well, academic exercises for grades, I'd call Rust students. Throw away programs people do for fun, I'd call Rust hobbyists. Pretty much anyone else, doing it for money (a living: roof over head, food on table), or open source contribution - I think they qualify. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silasmariner@programming.dev 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) In that case, stil reckon a higher proportion ofl Rust devs contribute to Linux than C devs permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MangoCats@feddit.it 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) Don't be so sure... I work for "megacorp" and about a year ago word came from on-high: "thou shalt not C (or C++, not that they know the difference) anymore. We are in mortal fear of embarassment that we allowed a mistake to be made that our all seeing oversight should have prevented by mandating the use of safe tools." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silasmariner@programming.dev 1 point 1 month ago That's still rather recently, and there's rather a large stock of 'before people' hanging around. But I agree inasmuch as it'll change as time goes by and one day you'll be right. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] silasmariner@programming.dev 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) In that case, stil reckon a higher proportion ofl Rust devs contribute to Linux than C devs permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MangoCats@feddit.it 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) Don't be so sure... I work for "megacorp" and about a year ago word came from on-high: "thou shalt not C (or C++, not that they know the difference) anymore. We are in mortal fear of embarassment that we allowed a mistake to be made that our all seeing oversight should have prevented by mandating the use of safe tools." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silasmariner@programming.dev 1 point 1 month ago That's still rather recently, and there's rather a large stock of 'before people' hanging around. But I agree inasmuch as it'll change as time goes by and one day you'll be right. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MangoCats@feddit.it 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) Don't be so sure... I work for "megacorp" and about a year ago word came from on-high: "thou shalt not C (or C++, not that they know the difference) anymore. We are in mortal fear of embarassment that we allowed a mistake to be made that our all seeing oversight should have prevented by mandating the use of safe tools." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silasmariner@programming.dev 1 point 1 month ago That's still rather recently, and there's rather a large stock of 'before people' hanging around. But I agree inasmuch as it'll change as time goes by and one day you'll be right. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] silasmariner@programming.dev 1 point 1 month ago That's still rather recently, and there's rather a large stock of 'before people' hanging around. But I agree inasmuch as it'll change as time goes by and one day you'll be right. permalink fedilink source parent