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I wish writing SQL queries was more popular than ORMs (lemmy.ml)

submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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Some backend libraries let you write SQL queries as they are and deliver them to the database. They still handle making the connection, pooling, etc.

ORMs introduce a different API for making SQL queries, with the aim to make it easier. But I find them always subpar to SQL, and often times they miss advanced features (and sometimes not even those advanced).

It also means every time I use a ORM, I have to learn this ORM's API.

SQL is already a high level language abstracting inner workings of the database. So I find the promise of ease of use not to beat SQL. And I don't like abstracting an already high level abstraction.

Alright, I admit, there are a few advantages:

if I don't know SQL and don't plan on learning it, it is easier to learn a ORM
if I want better out of the box syntax highlighting (as SQL queries may be interpreted as pure strings)
if I want to use structures similar to my programming language (classes, functions, etc).

But ultimately I find these benefits far outweighed by the benefits of pure sql.

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[–] [email protected] 60 points 1 year ago (3 children)

You don't even mention the 2 main advantages:

ORM lets you to use plain objects over untyped strings. I take typed anything over untyped anything, everyday
ORM lets you to use multiple database backends. For ex, you don't need to spawn a local postgres server, then clean/migrate it after each test suit, you can just use in-memory sqlite for that. OK this has some gotchas, but that's a massive improvement in productivity

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I too want my query results in an object, but thankfully libraries like sqlx for golang can do this without the extra overhead of an ORM. You give them a select query and they spit out hydrated objects.

As far as multiple DBs go, you can accomplish the same thing as long as you write ANSI standard SQL queries.

I've used ORMs heavily in the past and might still for a quick project or for the "command" side of a CQRS app. But I've seen too much bad performance once people move away from CRUD operations to reports via an ORM.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Even something as ubiquitous as JSON is not handled in the same way in different databases, same goes for Dates, and UUID. I am not even mentioning migrations scripts. As soon as you start writing raw SQL, I pretty sure you will hit a compatibility issue.

I was specifically talking about python, can't argue with golang. OK you have a valid point for performance, gotta keep an eye on that. However, I am satisfied for our CRUD api

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I was about to write the same thing. Really the object thing is the whole reason to use ORMs.

Using plain SQL is a compatibility and migration nightmare in medium and bigger sized projects. If anything using plain SQL is just bad software design at least in an OOP context.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Not to mention refactoring support...

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

There seems to be a trend of new (old) developers who find that strong typing is nothing more than a nuisance.

History repeating itself in the IT world. I don't wanna be around to support the systems that inherit these guys.