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As the U.S. starves it of oil, Cuba is pulling off one of the fastest solar revolutions on the planet — with China’s help (www.ctvnews.ca)
submitted 4 months ago by to c/technology@lemmy.world
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[–] 1 point 4 months ago* (10 children)

Okay, now you are changing what I said to continue to make your point that "Elon saved the company" which is very different from your original claim that "Elon provided the vision".

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (9 children)

    If I wasn't clear, then allow me to clarify. This is and always was my position and I believe it is supported by facts (which is why it's my position).

    1. Elon was one of the original cofounders of Tesla. He wasn't on the registration paperwork because one of the original founders already had an LLC registered and they decided to use that rather than make a new one. The LLC had little activity or money before Elon and others decided to make it happen.

    2. Elon left Tesla largely to Eberhard at that point.

    3. After a lot of transmission failures, Elon concluded that Eberhard was making bad decisions at Tesla. He pushed Eberhard out and took over as CEO.

    4. What followed were objectively good engineering decisions- things like deleting the gearbox and upsizing the electric motor. Under Elon the Roadster design was finished and it shipped, the Model S sedan came out as the first real mass produced electric car to hit the streets, followed by models X 3 and Y. The Y became one of the best selling vehicles in the world. During this time, the engineering decisions made by Elon/Tesla have been proven correct many times over.

    Do you factually disagree with any of this?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (8 children)

    Lol. Oh man after reading that I couldn't care less. It's not that your 'facts' are wrong, it's just that what we think are important facts are very different.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (7 children)

    In short- my facts don't suit your narrative (ELON BAD EVERYTHING ELON DO BAD) and so you'd rather dismiss me than debate me?

    If you think me wrong- then explain exactly what makes it wrong?

    Specifically- you said "Tesla was building those things before Musk took over. It’s like the Nazis and the autobahn, these people are taking credit for previous good decisions when they take over.".

    Can you explain what precisely Tesla had pre-Elon-takeover that he took credit for?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (6 children)

    It's okay if people value different things. I am fine with you valuing different facts. What I am not okay with is debating values, that's a waste of time, but I also understand if you disagree. However, its my own time to spend how I choose and I choose not to debate your values. Have a nice day.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (5 children)

    I am not debating values, I am debating facts. I would generally agree that debating values especially when it comes to evaluating Elon is a waste of both of our time.

    You are well within your right to not like the guy and he has certainly done plenty to deserve your dislike.

    However, and this is the point I have been trying to make since the beginning, even if you don't like him with good reason, even if hypothetically we both agreed that he's a bad person, that doesn't automatically mean everything he has ever done is bad. And that sort of revisionist history is my biggest complaint with both your comment and a lot of people who hate Elon in general.

    If your position was 'he accomplished a lot with Tesla and SpaceX but he is now in net negative to the country with how he helped Trump get reelected' I would have very little to challenge that with.
    But when it becomes not only is he bad now, but he was always bad all the time in every endeavor, that any accomplishment he might have had must be minimized, that's what I disagree with and honestly you should too as an intelligent sounding person.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (4 children)

    I am flattered my opinion on Elon means so much to you, so I will throw you a bone. You left out some facts I consider important, like he had to go to court to be retroactively considered a founder. A person who values a good debate would address such common criticisms head on instead of pretending that is not a relevant fact to be addressed. I simply value a good debate and this is not it.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (3 children)

    Your opinion on Elon is of little concern to me. I was addressing facts alone.

    Buy a quick googling, the lawsuit you are referencing is from the late 2010s around the time Eberhard was pushed out of the company. And thus I stand by my earlier statements about the company's history. As I said, there was no love lost there.

    But I am still trying to address your original position that Elon showed up after everything was done and took credit for it all, which I don't believe is accurate.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    If my opinion is of no consequence then let us both find a more meaningful endeavor

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    But that's missing the point.
    Your opinion of Elon is irrelevant, so is mine.

    FACTS matter though.
    Do facts or truth matter to you? If not then my keystrokes are wasted. If so then you should care that you are stating as fact something which is provably incorrect.

    I care about facts and truth. If I am stating something incorrect as fact, I always want to be made aware of it so I can correct my facts, and if necessary, re-evaluate my position (which I try to always base on facts rather than feelings or instinct).

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago*

    I told you before, I am not interested in debating values. Questioning my own values or misrepresenting my own position is not going to goad me into debating you. It only gives me more evidence that such an effort would be futile in regards to facts and the truth. Take this as a lesson in how to engage serious people in the future. That is how you "maximize" the value of this interaction.

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