Recently there's been quite a bit of outrage because the developer of Piefed publicly called out the Fediverse Anarchist Flotilla (FAF) for supposedly using LLM for automating instance moderation. and even though many of our admins the larger lemmy community took great lengths to debunk that post, it has become the disinfo that keeps on giving (see https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/68749575, https://kolektiva.social/@ophiocephalic/116518887925988112, https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/68222242 and more)
After clarifying our position for yet another time, someone suggested we should make an official post and an instance policy to "give me something I can boost as a positive example and a sign that things will be better going forward." and given that this storm-in-a-teacup doesn't seem to be abating as people are all too happy to bring it up again and again to malign the FAF; We're making this post to once and for all clarify this situation.
History
We're not going to rehash the whole drama and the many hit pieces against the FAF in the past two weeks, but I need to post the exact situation as it happened, without speculations and assumptions that people are all too happy to jump to.
- One of our mods develops a tool to download a user's public posting history through the lemmy API, to be used for evaluating them during moderation and shares it with some people in the admin team as something in progress. This tool does not feed anything to LLMs, it simply downloads the comments locally in a text file for easier review than going via the lemmy GUI.
- Someone is reported to our instance admins for blatant zionism and genocide apologia.
- An admin uses the tool to download the accused person's comment history for evaluation
- A quick evaluation (without LLM) confirms that this is a person that needs to be instance-banned. The moderation decision has now been locked-in at this point.
- At the same time, that admin was curious to discover if LLMs can used to summarize people's positions so that people can quickly follow-up with mod actions, without having to evaluate everyone's posts manually and reduce the workload of admins writing long justifications)
- As an experiment, the admin pass the user's comment history through a locally-run open-weights LLM (Qwen) to see the summarized output. It happens to match their own decision.
- The admin decides the leave the LLM summary in a pastebin along with that user's posting history for reference. As an inside joke, they decide to claim the post was summarized by OpenAI, as they expected only our community would care about this and our stance on corporate-LLMs is well-known at this point.
- The admin bans that person, providing a link to that pastebin as justification.
- The admin decides not to continue using LLMs anyway for summaries, for many valid reasons. As evidence see the lack of other pastebins with LLM summaries.
~2 weeks pass...
- The piefed developer is banned by a different mod in our instance for "zionism". (I put this in quotes as this is one mod's opinion, and not necessarily our instance's position.)
- The piefed developer apparently starts going through our instance modlogs for banned zionists and parses all their justifications
- The piefed developer discovers that modlog justification from 2 weeks before with the LLM summary.
- The piefed developer ask quickly in the common lemmy admin channel about it, at which point our instance admin in question, clarifies that the LLM was not used in the decision-making.
- The piefed developer does not officially reach to anyone else from our admin team, despite the fact that we've reached out before and asked them to contact us in advance for inter-instance matters to avoid escalations.
- The piefed developer make the public call-out I linked above as a piece of investigative journalism. The piefed developer does not provide the comments from our team which conflict with their narrative. The piefed developer not ask us for an official statement.
- The piefed developer to this day has not amended their public call-out from the comments multiple of our admins and lemmy users leave under their post, conflicting with the narrative.
If you feel I've misrepresented any steps of this history, please let us know and I'll be happy to adjust.
Given that, we acknowledge that even though we didn't use LLMs in moderations, we allowed it to appear as if we did, and that's on us. We will of course not do the same mistake again (appear as to be using LLMs for moderation)
The FAF's stance on LLM moderation
We are aware that our instance is seen as "LLM-friendly" due to our nuanced take on LLMs but that does not mean that we, as an instance, ever considered using LLMs for moderating our instance. So we want to make it absolutely crystal clear how we stand on the matter.
As an official policy:
- We have never used LLMs to guide our moderation decisions. This includes using LLM summaries which we would then validate, as well as LLM summaries which we use to confirm our existing decisions. LLMs are just not in our moderation loop whatsoever.
- We have never passed instance data to corporate LLMs.
- We have not used any automated moderation tooling which utilizes LLMs. The closest we have is the FOSS anti-CSAM filter I've developed and shared for years now, which relies strictly on locally-hosted machine-vision models.
- We have never officially considered using LLMs for moderation, nor do we plan to.
- As a team we're steadfastly against LLM for moderation due to its inherent biases.
- If any of the above changes, we will publicly inform the FAF community.
We hope this can finally put this matter to rest.
Can I ask some more questions?
What's the stance on popular votes? B/c some other people I know, they don't really fancy democracy as in: majority rule. It's a complicated matter (in reality) though.
And coming back to the question I wrote a few comments earlier: What's a moderators role? I guess I'd view it as some form of effective mild(?) hierarchical(?) or better: organizational position, as a mod gets extra tools and gets to ...well... moderate people's conversations. Are they bound to represent their community? I mean if they're part of some form of radical recall as well, they kinda represent/or speak for the group with what they're doing. Reason I ask is your post. And one individual connecting LLMs to mod decisions in their role as a moderator. Is that on them as an individual? Or do I get to apply the anarchist philosophy in reverse and blame the group of people standing behind their spokesperson for doing it in their name?
Sorry if my phrasing is a bit weird. Genuinely trying to make sense of it and what I'd like to think about the FAF's methodology.
We try to reach consensus internally in the admin team usually, but if we can't or if we feel it's going to be a controversial decision, we bring it to a popular vote. Generally yes direct democracy is not a perfect tool, but so long as a decision taken with it can be easily reversed with it it's no quite so bad.
We typically let admins run around doing direct action and trust that they act in good faith. They're not puppets. If one admin fucks up, we expect that the community will recall them. Our users are free to assign blame to whoever they want anyway. If they feel that other admins enabled bad behaviour and they also need to be recalled, they are free to request that as well.
its entirely the wrong question based on this situation. the LLM is a non-issue. frankly a ban is trivial to reverse. I could easily see an LLM being used effectively in this context by using it to quickly surface the problematic posts for review. such a use case would not suffer from generating hallucinations, because the raw context would be pulled outside of the llm, thereby avoiding any issues with the llm faults. essentially this entire situation is a nothing burger and the fact our admins felt the need to address it is hilarious.
If your goal is to assign blame for tool use in a situation where the damage is essentially nil no matter the final decision. I think you're entire moral base is suspect.
if your goal is how to assign blame in general in an anarchist group as an outsider non-participant. Then I question why you'd think we'd even necessarily care about your opinion?
If your goal is to understand how we deal with such situations internally, its generally not by assigning blame. Its by educating the individual who transgressed (or ourselves if the situation warrants it).
If the individual repeatedly transgresses and shows no growth, then we recall / exile that individual.
it really isnt that hard. and you can easily contrast it with world's system where admins have a history of repeatedly failures and they are never removed.
Edit: Lengthy comment removed. This isn't so much about your opinion on me. You're free to form your own. And I already know based on all the downvotes and feedback I get. I just wanted to form my opinion on you. How you handle dissent, whether you have the same notion of what constitutes good and bad behaviour as me, and what's going to happen if I feel I'm being subject to abuse. And whether that's the general FAF community's opinion or just a very vocal minority. Sometimes it's difficult to tell in online places. That's why I ask all these questions. I just wanted to know if I'm compatible. If I want to be on the same party as y'all.