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[–] 155 points 4 months ago (59 children)

According to Wikipedia this planet has an estimated surface gravity of 12.43 m/s^2 with a margin of error of about 2 m/s^2. That's only up to 50% higher than Earth's 9.8 m/s^2 (on the high end of the error margin) so it probably would be possible to get into orbit.

That said we don't actually know much about it for sure. We don't know if it's a terrestrial planet for example. It could be composed mostly of gases and liquids like Neptune.

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  • [–] 148 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (29 children)

    (Not a rocket scientist or mathematician, but I spent 100s of hours playing KSP RP-1)

    Just doing some estimates using data from the wikipedia page:

    The dV (delta-V) needed to get into low Earth orbit is around 9.4km/s.
    The dV for K2-18b might be around 19km/s, more than double that of Earth's.

    It's practically impossible I think, you would need such a massive launch vehicle. For double the dV, you would need exponentially more fuel assuming current rocketry tech (fuel+oxidizer tanks and engines). There wouldn't be any single-stage or two-stage rockets that could do this. With a 3 or 4 stage rocket maybe? But you would be sending nearly 100% fuel off the launchpad with virtually zero payload.

    Check out the "tyranny of the rocket equation". The more propellant you need to lift heavier rockets, the more propellant you need to lift that extra propellant and so on and so on.

    I tried to factor in:

    spoiler

    • Atmospheric drag - K2-18b's atmosphere is quite dense with a huge radius:

    The density of K2-18b is about 2.67+0.52/−0.47 g/cm3—intermediate between that of Earth and Neptune—implying that the planet has a hydrogen-rich envelope. [...] Atmosphere makes up at most 6.2% of the planet's mass

    • Since the atmosphere is so thick and takes up a lot of mass, I've picked 500km as the low orbit altitude (comparing to Earth's ~100km Karman line, it makes you appreciate how thin our atmosphere is ).

    • Rotational assist - I'm assuming it's tidally locked since it orbits so closely to its star (33 day years), and so you wouldn't get the assist from rotation like you do on Earth:

    The planet is most likely tidally locked to the star, although considering its orbital eccentricity, a spin-orbit resonance like Mercury is also possible.

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  • [–] 114 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Kerbal Space Program is such an amazing game that secretly teaches you physics.

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  • [–] 24 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    What about something like nuclear pulse propulsion, or some kind of massive spin launch?

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  • [–] 27 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Nuclear propulsion, like Project Orion, would probably make it more likely they'd manage to get out of orbit. No idea on the math here, tho

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_%28nuclear_propulsion%29

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  • [–] 23 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    With a denser atmosphere, wouldn't that mean that you could get more lift from a traditional aerofoil than on earth? And if so, wouldn't that technically make it easier to start from a high enough altitude that at least some of the gravity is mitigated?

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  • [–] 15 points 4 months ago

    That's what i was thinking - the dense atmosphere might even allow for platforms which are permanently suspended in the air like an inverse submarine, offsetting a large amount of needed fuel for a space launch

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    Let's say you do the same on Earth. If you fly to the top of the atmosphere you are 100 km above the ground. That's a 1/60 of the distance to the center of the Earth. You don't have to fight air resistance but gravity is almost the same, if I'm not wrong, less than 1% of difference.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    Build a large enough magnetic rail launcher and you could save shit tons of fuel. Get a ship doing 2000 mph before it leaves the ground and needs its rockets and you'll have a pretty good head start.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago*

    You don't have to launch from the ground, there are many things that can be done to allow them to reach orbit. It'll be an enormously bigger undertaking but the physics doesn't make it impossible. No reason to think of it in terms of our current situation either, and we are behind our current level of possibly when it comes to rocket science, due to * waves at everything else *

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    tidally locked

    Wouldn't that be a non starter for life? One side would be perpetually baked and the other would be frozen.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    I guess there could be a planetary Goldilocks Zone in the dusk area

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  • [–] 30 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    It's probably still a lot harder though. You're not just heavier, but also slower which means you'll spend more time fighting gravity. And all the extra fuel you bring for that makes the rocket heavier which means you need even more fuel to launch the fuel. Higher surface gravity likely means a thicker atmosphere too which is a big issue and a more massive body also has a faster orbital velocity. Although in this case the larger diameter might counteract that a bit because higher orbits have slower velocities.

    My point is that this would probably still be a lot harder than just building a 50% bigger rocket. If you've ever tried launching from Eve in Kerbal Space Program you know the pain. Although in that case you also have to fly the entire rocket there first which is its own challenge.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago (12 children)

    I've been wondering what a hypothetical perfect habitable planet for spacefaring would look like. Could you have one where a plane line the SR-71 Blackbird or an even less capable aircraft could simply "fly" into orbit? Or what about something Earth-like but with a flat plateau at 15,000 m where you could launch rockets from?

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  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago (9 children)

    I think Mars, assuming you terraform it, would be pretty close to that on both counts. Space planes might still be difficult, but the delta V is much lower and Olympus Mons would pretty much sit above the atmosphere.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    Holy shit, I hadn't considered that you could use Olympus Mons as a launch site cause it sticks so high up.

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  • [–] 15 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    The best part about it is that it's an extremely gradual slope completely unlike the mountain ranges on Earth, so you could haul stuff up there on trucks or trains easily.

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  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    The problem is you can't have mountains like that on tectonically active planets (a mountain that big on earth would sink into the mantle), which is kind of a prequisite for a long-term magnetosphere so its unfortunately not something a species could likely ever have except as a result of terraforming a world like mars and setting up some kind of artificial magnetosphere.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Is there a lower density limit for having a magnetosphere though? A habitable planet with 1.5x earth radius and the same mass would be much easier to get off of.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    I guess that could work? Earth is actually the densest planet in the solar system so our baseline mass > size ratio might actually be a bit abnormal.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago*

    Classic planes require an atmosphere to generate lift. There's an outer limit where that would be a viable mechanism, and on Earth it's still far below LEO. Still too deep in the gravity well for ion thrusters to be viable. It requires chemical rocket fuels to bridge that gap.

    Maybe someday fusion propulsion will break that limitations, but for now the best you can do is reduce the amount of fuel needed by flying to the upper atmosphere and reaching hypersonic speeds before kicking into rocket fuel propulsion.

    Then after orbital injection, switching to ion thrusters to move around, and solar sails for exiting orbit into interplanetary/lunar routes.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (9 children)

    I assume it's not just about the gravity, but also the much larger radius of the planet would mean much larger distance from the surface, and thus much more fuel needed.

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  • [–] 22 points 4 months ago* (4 children)

    That's not how.......what???

    F = G * (m1 * m2) / r^2

    Note that radius is both squared and the dividing term. More distance = less gravity

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    Escape velocity does scale with (square root of) radius so its not a dumb thought.

    And I'm not a rocket surgeon but I could imagine earth rockets might be operating near some physical limits that make a 50% increase (or whatever) infeasible.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    I stated an assumption and was contributing to the conversation. Even if that assumption is incorrect, there's no need to be a dick about it.

    It seems like a larger atmosphere would result in a longer duration exposed to atmospheric drag, thus requiring more fuel to overcome it.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    That's, uh, not really how that works. A taller atmosphere would mean you have to go through more of it, but unless it's not a terrestrial then the atmosphere won't be that much taller.

    If it is a non-terrestrial planet, it's unlikely anyone would be building rockets on there to begin with.

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  • You're sort of right. The change in distance from the surface is insignificant, but a spacecraft orbiting a bigger planet has to travel further with each orbit so its speed must be faster to avoid falling out of orbit, even if the gravitational acceleration at its orbital height is the same.

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