A picture of the Kimberly-Clark Warehouse in Ontario, California burning to the ground, with a Dark Souls 3 esque caption over it saying WALMART FIREBOMBED
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[–] 151 points 5 months ago (54 children)

I posted this comment already yesterday but i'll post it again because it's still relevant:

Do we want to get higher wages? The obvious answer might seem “yes”. But i argue it’s not that obvious.

People should be able to live without being forced to work. When your only income is from wages, that effectively forces you to work. I think we should strive for a society where basic needs are fulfilled even without jobs.

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  • [–] 46 points 5 months ago (19 children)

    Personally i think that unless you're disabled everyone should work. Where I live everyone has basic healthcare, cheap schools and there are lots of unions and workers rights so literally no one has to work more than 32 hours for a basic level of living. If youre disabled you receive wellfare so you dont have to work. Its literally a choice if you live on the streets here.

    I have literally no idea why the US has such a horrible and oppressive system when it comes to workers rights, healthcare and schooling. I don't understand why anyone thinks it's a good idea to have a two party system. I have no idea why the rich barely pay any taxes there. You have a truly corrupt and inhuman system in place.

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  • [–] 23 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    It's because we were a nation founded by violence and oppression and built on the backs of a slave race, none of which are practices we ever truly abandoned.

    You have healthcare, affordable schooling, and labor unions because, wherever you are, your populace is considered a workforce, not a slave race. When your society relies on a workforce, you want them healthy so they can work longer, you want them educated so they can work smarter, and you want them comfortable enough with their salaries and their hours to feel they can afford to have kids, who will one day join the workforce.

    Governing bodies in the US don't need us healthy, smart, or comfortable. They just need us to 1) work (hence tying our healthcare to our work hours), and 2) breed (hence minimal sex education, poor access to contraception, abortion bans, etc).

    They don't need to give us healthcare (or education, or basic human necessities or rights), because as long as we're breeding, it's cheaper if we just die. And if that ever bothers us enough to take to the streets (which it has, many times), our local police forces are highly militarized and have no qualms about doing to us what their white ancestors did to my native and black ones (which they have, many times).

    And to be clear, this isn't meant to be a woe-is-America spiel. These are problems that we've had many opportunities to address over the years, but let hubris, bigotry, and plain old stupidity get in the way. This is very much a mess of our own making, so I'm not trying to throw a pity party, just addressing your confusion.

    TL;DR: Violence, oppression, and slavery. The tried and true American way.

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  • [–] 13 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

    You left off they want you poor so you're more likely to commit crimes, like stealing food, so they can put you in jail and now use you for actual slave labor where its still legal.

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  • [–] 10 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    America: 4% of the world's population

    20-25% of the world's prisoners

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago

    The problem with that is there are doctors with individual opinions gatekeeping that welfare. One might think you're disabled, while another might think you can get better. I've been stuck in just that kind of limbo for almost a decade. I'm required to look for a job each month that everyone involved knows I could never do, and so I have to live on the bare minimum until I reach some arbitrary threshold to get the pension I should've gotten a long time ago.

    Meanwhile my family suffers, I have to spend what little I get on the medicine keeping me breathing and when I finally get it I'll be too far gone to have any time left.

    All this because I happened to get a disease rare enough that there are no experts and it just so happens to interact with the asthma I already had in unpredictable ways.

    So tell me, who should decide who's disabled and who isn't?

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  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    Because your favorite authors, screenwriters, poets, bands would be homeless under what counts as "work," or they'd not have the time, money, energy to invest in their preferred work.

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  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Its literally a choice if you live on the streets here.

    What if you can't find work for whatever reason (e.g. there's high unemployment and not enough jobs for everyone, or the person is somehow considered "unemployable," but not necessarily disabled)? What about single parents with infants/toddlers? Are there a lot of "bullshit jobs" where you live?

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    We have a social rent system in place for that, it means the government will pay part of the rent. Also if you cant work because you have kids there is a system in place for that too, you receive benefits (which is based on minimum wage).

    Basically everyone pays taxes on their wage here to make sure no one has to live on the streets. There is lots of social housing here.

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  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    at this point, most of us were born into it.

    by the time we were born, it was so entrenched nothing but horrible bloodshed could change it.

    we've been inundated with news and media since early childhood not to rise up for that change and many of us have (until recently) been left comfortable enough that we don't want to risk what remains.

    we've been made to believe (by the aforementioned propaganda) that we can vote in real change. some of us still want this to be true. it's becoming apparent this may not be the case. we're terrified.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago

    I don't understand why anyone thinks it's a good idea to have a two party system.

    It doesn't matter if the candidate you're voting for supports the two party system. This current election is the most important one of our lifetimes. So we'll keep voting for people who support the two party system because of the two party system.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    I had to take early retirement last year due to a spinal injury that causes random vertigo attacks that drop me to the shop floor more than once a week. Hated like hell to do it but didn't want to be fired as a safety risk since it would've prevented me from getting work anywhere else. The company was visibly relieved by my decision as well so I guess it was my time to drop off the chain, no pun intended.

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  • [–] 15 points 5 months ago (15 children)

    except the national economies aren't organized in a way to enable any form of UBI.

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  • [–] 11 points 5 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    it's not like governments are trying to get there when it's not an election season though

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    Elections aren't going to save you.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    I mean Somalia is right there, mate

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

    national economies handle being welfare states just fine, which isn't so different from what a UBI would be. Also developed service economies live and die by consumption. A UBI would stabilise and stimulate domestic consumer demand.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    there's massive difference in scale though that brings in a lot of variables that would require a full lock-in before implementation. Given how globalised and interdependent modern economies are - there are too many unpredictable factors outside of governmental control that can whiplash onto national economy and wreck the plans even more than usual. And that might render any UBI-type system a huge burden that would get targeted by folks from IMF making "valuable" "suggestions".

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    The Comingle app (beta) is seeking to start our own UBI without relying on the government to do it for us. Seems very promising

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    It's a nonprofot org which basically just does monthly UBI to your bank account when you sign up... They did the math and it turns out you only need a few thousand people of diverse economic backgrounds for it to be viable.

    From what I understand it's like a phone banking app, but more secure, and it takes something like 10% of your earnings each month, then returns a lump sum to everyone of around $500 almost immediately. So people earning $40k/yr will net a couple hundred dollars per month. If you make nothing that month you will get closer to $1000 People who make $100k/yr will lose a couple hundred dollars. And the multimillionaires will lose a couple Gs a month (which sounds like a lot but it's negligible to them).

    https://youtu.be/mo9FsrSXZww

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    the multimillionaires

    Why would any of them do this instead of charity donation that they can deduct from their taxable income?

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    Great question. So this money goes directly to people, instead of through a charity. We are cutting out the middle man, and it affects EVERYONE with cash, not just a select few who know how to benefit from the charity and qualify for their supplies or whatever the charity provides. It's awesome for us, but not as awesome for the billionaires and multimillionaires. The only real benefit for them is, they get to keep their heads!

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  • [–] 15 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    We should strive for that society, sure, but that's going to take generations. Meanwhile, people need to eat today.

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  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    There should be a clear definition of what "basic needs" means. Opinions will vary greatly when you broaden the discussion.

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