▲ 642 ▼ Reddit mods immediately delete Post about Eppsteins private Email leak(s) (thelemmy.club) submitted 7 months ago by EngineX@lemmy.zip to c/reddit@lemmy.world 144 comments fedilink hide all child comments Here is the link to the orginal thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/1qwo9u8/removed_by_moderator/
[–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 20 points 7 months ago (1 child) Its technically hacking due to it not being your account. Unauthorized access. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world -15 points 7 months ago* (7 children) That's still not hacking. It's "unauthorized access" like you said, or "gaining access". Hacking requires bypassing some security measure or obtaining access through some technological or social engineering means. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) that's still hacking. hacking is gaining unauthorized access to a system through: social engineering cypher breaking brute force of the three the first is BY FAR the most common and efficient. it's also the least sexy so they don't make movies about it and the public perception is that it's something else permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world -4 points 7 months ago (1 child) I agree with what you said. This also wasn't social engineering. The password was just there and available. Also, the excellent and amazing movie Hackers features plenty of social engineering. Also, I didn't say "excellent" and "amazing" sarcastically. It really is an under rated movie. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (3 children) It was there, doesn't mean it was for you. If you found a car with the keys in it, would you steal it or realize you shouldn't do that? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] flatplutosociety@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago Is it a nice car? permalink fedilink source parent [–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Yeah but if I did, no one would say I hotwired the car. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Its still grand theft, hotwired or keys. That's the whole point 😅 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago It's two different things being argued about: the legal term "hacking" vs the every day language term, which I believe implies something more specific than "unauthorized access", something where technical or social skills were used to gain that access. That's the parallel I was trying to draw by mentioning the word "hotwiring" instead of "stealing". It would be like if the legal term for stealing a car was "hotwiring". That said, I did see that the OP of this tangent is actually trying to argue the "this isn't illegal" angle rather than the difference between legal terms and broader language terms. I agree this falls under the legal definition of hacking, but I also agree with those basically saying that this falls outside of the way they think the term should be used. It waters down its meaning. permalink fedilink source parent [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago It was there, doesn't mean it was for you. Look, I'm not arguing about whether this is illegal or not. I'm arguing about the literal definition of the term "hacking". It's just like walking into a strangers house without permission where the door is wide open is technically illegal, but it can't qualify as "breaking and entering". permalink fedilink source parent [–] Smoogs@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago* (1 child) you’re taking this splitting hairs to the moon today aren’t you, little troll. Talk about a hard derail to burry the lead. The thing everyone wants to see to dethrone this racist pile of shite and you’re over here like “it’s pronounced potato, not potato.” permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago you’re taking this splitting hairs to the moon today aren’t you, little troll Troll? Where the hell are you coming from? The thing everyone wants to see to dethrone this racist pile of shite and you’re over here like “it’s pronounced potato, not potato.” So you have an issue with me arguing that people gaining access to this information are not breaking the law? permalink fedilink source parent [–] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago (2 children) Unauthorized access is hacking. Doesn't matter if a person has a computer with no password at all. If you are on their computer and you are not authorized to use their computer that is a crime. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago* (3 children) If i give someone my bank details and passwords and they empty my account, can I claim I've been hacked? No. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] treesapx@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) What part of "unauthorized access" is so difficult for people to understand? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (1 child) How is authorization determined? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Probably by giving out your account details. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) So, Epstein has given out his account details by putting them in an email. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Were those details only used by the people he directly sent them to? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Can dead men either provide or deny authorisation? Can dead men get hacked? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago When I die, my assets should go to the people I named as my beneficiaries. If someone else comes along to try and take ownership of my assets, they should definitely be denied. Also, just because I'm dead doesn't mean anyone should have access to my devices, especially if password locked. So I would answer both questions with yes. permalink fedilink source parent [+] badgermurphy@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (1 child) You violated the TOS by sharing the details A TOS violation is not the same as breaking the law. If that were the case then every single person on the face on the planet would be a criminal. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] badgermurphy@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago* (1 child) The account holder violated the contract with the serviceprovider. The "hacker" has no agreement with anyone so they violated nothing. They found a key on the ground and used it in a lock. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] badgermurphy@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Yeah. It comes down to Freedom to roam in Northern Europe and squatters rights in the extreme physical parallel. Entering is fine as long as there is no breaking. In the digital relm i would argue that brute forcing a password is like jimmying a lock, but finding a password is like finding a key. But I think your point is the strongest. It doesn't matter what either of us think. It totally depends on the justice system that has jurisdiction and those rules could be anything. permalink fedilink source parent [+] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world -3 points 7 months ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) So your claim is that if I sit down at a computer that isn't mine and has no security measures in place, and then open a file, that I have legally "hacked" the computer? The minimal definition you can fall back to is "unauthorized access". But now you have to establish and argue that an unsecured computer/system is off limits to everyone except the owner. Which then opens up a big can of worms with network connected devices, and demonstrates that such basic and literal verbatim interpretation doesn't work in reality. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago (1 child) That's not 'my claim.' That's the law. You can call it hacking or whatever. The legal term is: unauthorized access to a computer system. Think about it in any other way? So I'm just walking down the street... I see a house.. I go open a door.. I open the fridge. Make myself a sandwich. Then go to a bedroom that's not mine. Put on some underwear that isn't mine and leave some stains on the sheets... Why don't you just go rape somebody? And clearly you have authorization to access that vagina or that butthole or mouth or however your fetish desires??? Just tell me you've been on Epstein's Island.... Jfc? Wtf is wrong with you, CeeBee_Eh? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago The legal term is: unauthorized access to a computer system. No, the legal definition is this: In a legal context, hacking is a term for utilizing an unconventional or illicit means to gain unauthorized access to a digital device, computer system, or network. Source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/hacking So this wasn't illicit, because the FBI publicly published the data. So the argument has to be made with "unconventional". This is what I disagree on. Think about it in any other way? So I'm just walking down the street... I see a house.. I go open a door.. I open the fridge. Make myself a sandwich. Then go to a bedroom that's not mine. Put on some underwear that isn't mine and leave some stains on the sheets... That's illegal. There's a law for that. There are also laws that protect digital assets in a similar way, and they fall under Cybercrime. Why don't you just go rape somebody? And clearly you have authorization to access that vagina or that butthole or mouth or however your fetish desires??? Calm down there, Epstein. Just tell me you've been on Epstein's Island.... Jfc? Wtf is wrong with you, CeeBee_Eh? You suck at rage baiting. I'm advocating for exposing more of the emails and not letting people refer to it as "hacking", and you're so enraged by someone disagreeing with you that you literally call that person "Epstein". I know mental health care isn't much of a thing in the US, but please find some help. For all our sakes. permalink fedilink source parent [–] treesapx@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (2 children) The door was unlocked, officer! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Well yes. It would be "unlawful entry" (or whatever it's called) versus "breaking and entering". permalink fedilink source parent [–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago Richard chase vibes Richard Trenton Chase was an American serial killer, cannibal and necrophile known as the Vampire of Sacramento, the Dracula Killer and the Vampire Killer, who killed six people between December 1977 and January 1978 in Sacramento, California. All of Chase's victims were chosen at random. Wikipedia permalink fedilink source parent [–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child) Legally it's called hacking. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/hacking permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago* (1 child) The base legal definition of "hacking" is "unauthorized access". Then the trick becomes establishing "unauthorized". The reason this matters is if a website is publicly accessible, then it's assumed to be authorized even though it's not explicitly stated by anyone. However, you are accessing information on a computer system you do not own and were not given explicit permission to access. Now let's say in the HTML or JS there's an endpoint to a backend server that's not directly exposed via online searches or page links. And through that link you are able to expose sensitive data that's not shown on the webpage. Now, how is the definition of "unauthorized access" or "hacking" applied here? Edit: yes this is splitting atoms, but that's the world of legal definitions permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child) Bro, stfu and move on. Its "hacking" in every legal definition. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 child) Don't like being wrong, eh? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago (1 child) Harassment charges. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Says the asshole throwing out accusations of csam because they don't like being contradicted. permalink fedilink source parent [–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (1 child) Or having the FBI leak your password and you using it without authorization. Legally it 100% falls under hacking in the USA. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/hacking First sentence. You don't have to have stolen the password, if you login to another account, and someone proves you did, you can be charged if they want to pursue it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago In a legal context, hacking is a term for utilizing an unconventional or illicit means to gain unauthorized access to a digital device, computer system, or network. We can rule out "illicit" because the FBI published the data publicly. Now the heavy lifting has to be done by "unconventional", which I don't think qualifies here. A government agency published the credentials, which means no one had to do social engineering, sneak into an office, reverse engineer anything, or even guess a person's birthday. Now if this somehow went to court, a judge might rule that this qualifies as hacking, but my opinion is that it doesn't. permalink fedilink source parent [–] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago @FBI this guy has illegal shit on their computer. Probably child porn. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world -15 points 7 months ago* (7 children) That's still not hacking. It's "unauthorized access" like you said, or "gaining access". Hacking requires bypassing some security measure or obtaining access through some technological or social engineering means. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) that's still hacking. hacking is gaining unauthorized access to a system through: social engineering cypher breaking brute force of the three the first is BY FAR the most common and efficient. it's also the least sexy so they don't make movies about it and the public perception is that it's something else permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world -4 points 7 months ago (1 child) I agree with what you said. This also wasn't social engineering. The password was just there and available. Also, the excellent and amazing movie Hackers features plenty of social engineering. Also, I didn't say "excellent" and "amazing" sarcastically. It really is an under rated movie. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (3 children) It was there, doesn't mean it was for you. If you found a car with the keys in it, would you steal it or realize you shouldn't do that? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] flatplutosociety@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago Is it a nice car? permalink fedilink source parent [–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Yeah but if I did, no one would say I hotwired the car. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Its still grand theft, hotwired or keys. That's the whole point 😅 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago It's two different things being argued about: the legal term "hacking" vs the every day language term, which I believe implies something more specific than "unauthorized access", something where technical or social skills were used to gain that access. That's the parallel I was trying to draw by mentioning the word "hotwiring" instead of "stealing". It would be like if the legal term for stealing a car was "hotwiring". That said, I did see that the OP of this tangent is actually trying to argue the "this isn't illegal" angle rather than the difference between legal terms and broader language terms. I agree this falls under the legal definition of hacking, but I also agree with those basically saying that this falls outside of the way they think the term should be used. It waters down its meaning. permalink fedilink source parent [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago It was there, doesn't mean it was for you. Look, I'm not arguing about whether this is illegal or not. I'm arguing about the literal definition of the term "hacking". It's just like walking into a strangers house without permission where the door is wide open is technically illegal, but it can't qualify as "breaking and entering". permalink fedilink source parent [–] Smoogs@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago* (1 child) you’re taking this splitting hairs to the moon today aren’t you, little troll. Talk about a hard derail to burry the lead. The thing everyone wants to see to dethrone this racist pile of shite and you’re over here like “it’s pronounced potato, not potato.” permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago you’re taking this splitting hairs to the moon today aren’t you, little troll Troll? Where the hell are you coming from? The thing everyone wants to see to dethrone this racist pile of shite and you’re over here like “it’s pronounced potato, not potato.” So you have an issue with me arguing that people gaining access to this information are not breaking the law? permalink fedilink source parent [–] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago (2 children) Unauthorized access is hacking. Doesn't matter if a person has a computer with no password at all. If you are on their computer and you are not authorized to use their computer that is a crime. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago* (3 children) If i give someone my bank details and passwords and they empty my account, can I claim I've been hacked? No. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] treesapx@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) What part of "unauthorized access" is so difficult for people to understand? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (1 child) How is authorization determined? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Probably by giving out your account details. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) So, Epstein has given out his account details by putting them in an email. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Were those details only used by the people he directly sent them to? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Can dead men either provide or deny authorisation? Can dead men get hacked? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago When I die, my assets should go to the people I named as my beneficiaries. If someone else comes along to try and take ownership of my assets, they should definitely be denied. Also, just because I'm dead doesn't mean anyone should have access to my devices, especially if password locked. So I would answer both questions with yes. permalink fedilink source parent [+] badgermurphy@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (1 child) You violated the TOS by sharing the details A TOS violation is not the same as breaking the law. If that were the case then every single person on the face on the planet would be a criminal. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] badgermurphy@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago* (1 child) The account holder violated the contract with the serviceprovider. The "hacker" has no agreement with anyone so they violated nothing. They found a key on the ground and used it in a lock. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] badgermurphy@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Yeah. It comes down to Freedom to roam in Northern Europe and squatters rights in the extreme physical parallel. Entering is fine as long as there is no breaking. In the digital relm i would argue that brute forcing a password is like jimmying a lock, but finding a password is like finding a key. But I think your point is the strongest. It doesn't matter what either of us think. It totally depends on the justice system that has jurisdiction and those rules could be anything. permalink fedilink source parent [+] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world -3 points 7 months ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) So your claim is that if I sit down at a computer that isn't mine and has no security measures in place, and then open a file, that I have legally "hacked" the computer? The minimal definition you can fall back to is "unauthorized access". But now you have to establish and argue that an unsecured computer/system is off limits to everyone except the owner. Which then opens up a big can of worms with network connected devices, and demonstrates that such basic and literal verbatim interpretation doesn't work in reality. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago (1 child) That's not 'my claim.' That's the law. You can call it hacking or whatever. The legal term is: unauthorized access to a computer system. Think about it in any other way? So I'm just walking down the street... I see a house.. I go open a door.. I open the fridge. Make myself a sandwich. Then go to a bedroom that's not mine. Put on some underwear that isn't mine and leave some stains on the sheets... Why don't you just go rape somebody? And clearly you have authorization to access that vagina or that butthole or mouth or however your fetish desires??? Just tell me you've been on Epstein's Island.... Jfc? Wtf is wrong with you, CeeBee_Eh? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago The legal term is: unauthorized access to a computer system. No, the legal definition is this: In a legal context, hacking is a term for utilizing an unconventional or illicit means to gain unauthorized access to a digital device, computer system, or network. Source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/hacking So this wasn't illicit, because the FBI publicly published the data. So the argument has to be made with "unconventional". This is what I disagree on. Think about it in any other way? So I'm just walking down the street... I see a house.. I go open a door.. I open the fridge. Make myself a sandwich. Then go to a bedroom that's not mine. Put on some underwear that isn't mine and leave some stains on the sheets... That's illegal. There's a law for that. There are also laws that protect digital assets in a similar way, and they fall under Cybercrime. Why don't you just go rape somebody? And clearly you have authorization to access that vagina or that butthole or mouth or however your fetish desires??? Calm down there, Epstein. Just tell me you've been on Epstein's Island.... Jfc? Wtf is wrong with you, CeeBee_Eh? You suck at rage baiting. I'm advocating for exposing more of the emails and not letting people refer to it as "hacking", and you're so enraged by someone disagreeing with you that you literally call that person "Epstein". I know mental health care isn't much of a thing in the US, but please find some help. For all our sakes. permalink fedilink source parent [–] treesapx@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (2 children) The door was unlocked, officer! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Well yes. It would be "unlawful entry" (or whatever it's called) versus "breaking and entering". permalink fedilink source parent [–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago Richard chase vibes Richard Trenton Chase was an American serial killer, cannibal and necrophile known as the Vampire of Sacramento, the Dracula Killer and the Vampire Killer, who killed six people between December 1977 and January 1978 in Sacramento, California. All of Chase's victims were chosen at random. Wikipedia permalink fedilink source parent [–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child) Legally it's called hacking. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/hacking permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago* (1 child) The base legal definition of "hacking" is "unauthorized access". Then the trick becomes establishing "unauthorized". The reason this matters is if a website is publicly accessible, then it's assumed to be authorized even though it's not explicitly stated by anyone. However, you are accessing information on a computer system you do not own and were not given explicit permission to access. Now let's say in the HTML or JS there's an endpoint to a backend server that's not directly exposed via online searches or page links. And through that link you are able to expose sensitive data that's not shown on the webpage. Now, how is the definition of "unauthorized access" or "hacking" applied here? Edit: yes this is splitting atoms, but that's the world of legal definitions permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child) Bro, stfu and move on. Its "hacking" in every legal definition. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 child) Don't like being wrong, eh? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago (1 child) Harassment charges. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Says the asshole throwing out accusations of csam because they don't like being contradicted. permalink fedilink source parent [–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (1 child) Or having the FBI leak your password and you using it without authorization. Legally it 100% falls under hacking in the USA. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/hacking First sentence. You don't have to have stolen the password, if you login to another account, and someone proves you did, you can be charged if they want to pursue it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago In a legal context, hacking is a term for utilizing an unconventional or illicit means to gain unauthorized access to a digital device, computer system, or network. We can rule out "illicit" because the FBI published the data publicly. Now the heavy lifting has to be done by "unconventional", which I don't think qualifies here. A government agency published the credentials, which means no one had to do social engineering, sneak into an office, reverse engineer anything, or even guess a person's birthday. Now if this somehow went to court, a judge might rule that this qualifies as hacking, but my opinion is that it doesn't. permalink fedilink source parent [–] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago @FBI this guy has illegal shit on their computer. Probably child porn. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) that's still hacking. hacking is gaining unauthorized access to a system through: social engineering cypher breaking brute force of the three the first is BY FAR the most common and efficient. it's also the least sexy so they don't make movies about it and the public perception is that it's something else permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world -4 points 7 months ago (1 child) I agree with what you said. This also wasn't social engineering. The password was just there and available. Also, the excellent and amazing movie Hackers features plenty of social engineering. Also, I didn't say "excellent" and "amazing" sarcastically. It really is an under rated movie. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (3 children) It was there, doesn't mean it was for you. If you found a car with the keys in it, would you steal it or realize you shouldn't do that? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] flatplutosociety@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago Is it a nice car? permalink fedilink source parent [–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Yeah but if I did, no one would say I hotwired the car. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Its still grand theft, hotwired or keys. That's the whole point 😅 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago It's two different things being argued about: the legal term "hacking" vs the every day language term, which I believe implies something more specific than "unauthorized access", something where technical or social skills were used to gain that access. That's the parallel I was trying to draw by mentioning the word "hotwiring" instead of "stealing". It would be like if the legal term for stealing a car was "hotwiring". That said, I did see that the OP of this tangent is actually trying to argue the "this isn't illegal" angle rather than the difference between legal terms and broader language terms. I agree this falls under the legal definition of hacking, but I also agree with those basically saying that this falls outside of the way they think the term should be used. It waters down its meaning. permalink fedilink source parent [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago It was there, doesn't mean it was for you. Look, I'm not arguing about whether this is illegal or not. I'm arguing about the literal definition of the term "hacking". It's just like walking into a strangers house without permission where the door is wide open is technically illegal, but it can't qualify as "breaking and entering". permalink fedilink source parent
[–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world -4 points 7 months ago (1 child) I agree with what you said. This also wasn't social engineering. The password was just there and available. Also, the excellent and amazing movie Hackers features plenty of social engineering. Also, I didn't say "excellent" and "amazing" sarcastically. It really is an under rated movie. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (3 children) It was there, doesn't mean it was for you. If you found a car with the keys in it, would you steal it or realize you shouldn't do that? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] flatplutosociety@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago Is it a nice car? permalink fedilink source parent [–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Yeah but if I did, no one would say I hotwired the car. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Its still grand theft, hotwired or keys. That's the whole point 😅 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago It's two different things being argued about: the legal term "hacking" vs the every day language term, which I believe implies something more specific than "unauthorized access", something where technical or social skills were used to gain that access. That's the parallel I was trying to draw by mentioning the word "hotwiring" instead of "stealing". It would be like if the legal term for stealing a car was "hotwiring". That said, I did see that the OP of this tangent is actually trying to argue the "this isn't illegal" angle rather than the difference between legal terms and broader language terms. I agree this falls under the legal definition of hacking, but I also agree with those basically saying that this falls outside of the way they think the term should be used. It waters down its meaning. permalink fedilink source parent [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago It was there, doesn't mean it was for you. Look, I'm not arguing about whether this is illegal or not. I'm arguing about the literal definition of the term "hacking". It's just like walking into a strangers house without permission where the door is wide open is technically illegal, but it can't qualify as "breaking and entering". permalink fedilink source parent
[–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (3 children) It was there, doesn't mean it was for you. If you found a car with the keys in it, would you steal it or realize you shouldn't do that? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] flatplutosociety@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago Is it a nice car? permalink fedilink source parent [–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Yeah but if I did, no one would say I hotwired the car. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Its still grand theft, hotwired or keys. That's the whole point 😅 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago It's two different things being argued about: the legal term "hacking" vs the every day language term, which I believe implies something more specific than "unauthorized access", something where technical or social skills were used to gain that access. That's the parallel I was trying to draw by mentioning the word "hotwiring" instead of "stealing". It would be like if the legal term for stealing a car was "hotwiring". That said, I did see that the OP of this tangent is actually trying to argue the "this isn't illegal" angle rather than the difference between legal terms and broader language terms. I agree this falls under the legal definition of hacking, but I also agree with those basically saying that this falls outside of the way they think the term should be used. It waters down its meaning. permalink fedilink source parent [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago It was there, doesn't mean it was for you. Look, I'm not arguing about whether this is illegal or not. I'm arguing about the literal definition of the term "hacking". It's just like walking into a strangers house without permission where the door is wide open is technically illegal, but it can't qualify as "breaking and entering". permalink fedilink source parent
[–] flatplutosociety@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago Is it a nice car? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Yeah but if I did, no one would say I hotwired the car. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Its still grand theft, hotwired or keys. That's the whole point 😅 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago It's two different things being argued about: the legal term "hacking" vs the every day language term, which I believe implies something more specific than "unauthorized access", something where technical or social skills were used to gain that access. That's the parallel I was trying to draw by mentioning the word "hotwiring" instead of "stealing". It would be like if the legal term for stealing a car was "hotwiring". That said, I did see that the OP of this tangent is actually trying to argue the "this isn't illegal" angle rather than the difference between legal terms and broader language terms. I agree this falls under the legal definition of hacking, but I also agree with those basically saying that this falls outside of the way they think the term should be used. It waters down its meaning. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Its still grand theft, hotwired or keys. That's the whole point 😅 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago It's two different things being argued about: the legal term "hacking" vs the every day language term, which I believe implies something more specific than "unauthorized access", something where technical or social skills were used to gain that access. That's the parallel I was trying to draw by mentioning the word "hotwiring" instead of "stealing". It would be like if the legal term for stealing a car was "hotwiring". That said, I did see that the OP of this tangent is actually trying to argue the "this isn't illegal" angle rather than the difference between legal terms and broader language terms. I agree this falls under the legal definition of hacking, but I also agree with those basically saying that this falls outside of the way they think the term should be used. It waters down its meaning. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago It's two different things being argued about: the legal term "hacking" vs the every day language term, which I believe implies something more specific than "unauthorized access", something where technical or social skills were used to gain that access. That's the parallel I was trying to draw by mentioning the word "hotwiring" instead of "stealing". It would be like if the legal term for stealing a car was "hotwiring". That said, I did see that the OP of this tangent is actually trying to argue the "this isn't illegal" angle rather than the difference between legal terms and broader language terms. I agree this falls under the legal definition of hacking, but I also agree with those basically saying that this falls outside of the way they think the term should be used. It waters down its meaning. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago It was there, doesn't mean it was for you. Look, I'm not arguing about whether this is illegal or not. I'm arguing about the literal definition of the term "hacking". It's just like walking into a strangers house without permission where the door is wide open is technically illegal, but it can't qualify as "breaking and entering". permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Smoogs@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago* (1 child) you’re taking this splitting hairs to the moon today aren’t you, little troll. Talk about a hard derail to burry the lead. The thing everyone wants to see to dethrone this racist pile of shite and you’re over here like “it’s pronounced potato, not potato.” permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago you’re taking this splitting hairs to the moon today aren’t you, little troll Troll? Where the hell are you coming from? The thing everyone wants to see to dethrone this racist pile of shite and you’re over here like “it’s pronounced potato, not potato.” So you have an issue with me arguing that people gaining access to this information are not breaking the law? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago you’re taking this splitting hairs to the moon today aren’t you, little troll Troll? Where the hell are you coming from? The thing everyone wants to see to dethrone this racist pile of shite and you’re over here like “it’s pronounced potato, not potato.” So you have an issue with me arguing that people gaining access to this information are not breaking the law? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago (2 children) Unauthorized access is hacking. Doesn't matter if a person has a computer with no password at all. If you are on their computer and you are not authorized to use their computer that is a crime. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago* (3 children) If i give someone my bank details and passwords and they empty my account, can I claim I've been hacked? No. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] treesapx@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) What part of "unauthorized access" is so difficult for people to understand? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (1 child) How is authorization determined? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Probably by giving out your account details. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) So, Epstein has given out his account details by putting them in an email. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Were those details only used by the people he directly sent them to? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Can dead men either provide or deny authorisation? Can dead men get hacked? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago When I die, my assets should go to the people I named as my beneficiaries. If someone else comes along to try and take ownership of my assets, they should definitely be denied. Also, just because I'm dead doesn't mean anyone should have access to my devices, especially if password locked. So I would answer both questions with yes. permalink fedilink source parent [+] badgermurphy@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (1 child) You violated the TOS by sharing the details A TOS violation is not the same as breaking the law. If that were the case then every single person on the face on the planet would be a criminal. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] badgermurphy@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago* (1 child) The account holder violated the contract with the serviceprovider. The "hacker" has no agreement with anyone so they violated nothing. They found a key on the ground and used it in a lock. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] badgermurphy@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Yeah. It comes down to Freedom to roam in Northern Europe and squatters rights in the extreme physical parallel. Entering is fine as long as there is no breaking. In the digital relm i would argue that brute forcing a password is like jimmying a lock, but finding a password is like finding a key. But I think your point is the strongest. It doesn't matter what either of us think. It totally depends on the justice system that has jurisdiction and those rules could be anything. permalink fedilink source parent [+] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world -3 points 7 months ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) So your claim is that if I sit down at a computer that isn't mine and has no security measures in place, and then open a file, that I have legally "hacked" the computer? The minimal definition you can fall back to is "unauthorized access". But now you have to establish and argue that an unsecured computer/system is off limits to everyone except the owner. Which then opens up a big can of worms with network connected devices, and demonstrates that such basic and literal verbatim interpretation doesn't work in reality. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago (1 child) That's not 'my claim.' That's the law. You can call it hacking or whatever. The legal term is: unauthorized access to a computer system. Think about it in any other way? So I'm just walking down the street... I see a house.. I go open a door.. I open the fridge. Make myself a sandwich. Then go to a bedroom that's not mine. Put on some underwear that isn't mine and leave some stains on the sheets... Why don't you just go rape somebody? And clearly you have authorization to access that vagina or that butthole or mouth or however your fetish desires??? Just tell me you've been on Epstein's Island.... Jfc? Wtf is wrong with you, CeeBee_Eh? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago The legal term is: unauthorized access to a computer system. No, the legal definition is this: In a legal context, hacking is a term for utilizing an unconventional or illicit means to gain unauthorized access to a digital device, computer system, or network. Source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/hacking So this wasn't illicit, because the FBI publicly published the data. So the argument has to be made with "unconventional". This is what I disagree on. Think about it in any other way? So I'm just walking down the street... I see a house.. I go open a door.. I open the fridge. Make myself a sandwich. Then go to a bedroom that's not mine. Put on some underwear that isn't mine and leave some stains on the sheets... That's illegal. There's a law for that. There are also laws that protect digital assets in a similar way, and they fall under Cybercrime. Why don't you just go rape somebody? And clearly you have authorization to access that vagina or that butthole or mouth or however your fetish desires??? Calm down there, Epstein. Just tell me you've been on Epstein's Island.... Jfc? Wtf is wrong with you, CeeBee_Eh? You suck at rage baiting. I'm advocating for exposing more of the emails and not letting people refer to it as "hacking", and you're so enraged by someone disagreeing with you that you literally call that person "Epstein". I know mental health care isn't much of a thing in the US, but please find some help. For all our sakes. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago* (3 children) If i give someone my bank details and passwords and they empty my account, can I claim I've been hacked? No. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] treesapx@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) What part of "unauthorized access" is so difficult for people to understand? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (1 child) How is authorization determined? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Probably by giving out your account details. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) So, Epstein has given out his account details by putting them in an email. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Were those details only used by the people he directly sent them to? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Can dead men either provide or deny authorisation? Can dead men get hacked? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago When I die, my assets should go to the people I named as my beneficiaries. If someone else comes along to try and take ownership of my assets, they should definitely be denied. Also, just because I'm dead doesn't mean anyone should have access to my devices, especially if password locked. So I would answer both questions with yes. permalink fedilink source parent [+] badgermurphy@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (1 child) You violated the TOS by sharing the details A TOS violation is not the same as breaking the law. If that were the case then every single person on the face on the planet would be a criminal. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] badgermurphy@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago* (1 child) The account holder violated the contract with the serviceprovider. The "hacker" has no agreement with anyone so they violated nothing. They found a key on the ground and used it in a lock. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] badgermurphy@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Yeah. It comes down to Freedom to roam in Northern Europe and squatters rights in the extreme physical parallel. Entering is fine as long as there is no breaking. In the digital relm i would argue that brute forcing a password is like jimmying a lock, but finding a password is like finding a key. But I think your point is the strongest. It doesn't matter what either of us think. It totally depends on the justice system that has jurisdiction and those rules could be anything. permalink fedilink source parent [+] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world -3 points 7 months ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] treesapx@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) What part of "unauthorized access" is so difficult for people to understand? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (1 child) How is authorization determined? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Probably by giving out your account details. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) So, Epstein has given out his account details by putting them in an email. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Were those details only used by the people he directly sent them to? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Can dead men either provide or deny authorisation? Can dead men get hacked? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago When I die, my assets should go to the people I named as my beneficiaries. If someone else comes along to try and take ownership of my assets, they should definitely be denied. Also, just because I'm dead doesn't mean anyone should have access to my devices, especially if password locked. So I would answer both questions with yes. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (1 child) How is authorization determined? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Probably by giving out your account details. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) So, Epstein has given out his account details by putting them in an email. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Were those details only used by the people he directly sent them to? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Can dead men either provide or deny authorisation? Can dead men get hacked? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago When I die, my assets should go to the people I named as my beneficiaries. If someone else comes along to try and take ownership of my assets, they should definitely be denied. Also, just because I'm dead doesn't mean anyone should have access to my devices, especially if password locked. So I would answer both questions with yes. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Probably by giving out your account details. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) So, Epstein has given out his account details by putting them in an email. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Were those details only used by the people he directly sent them to? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Can dead men either provide or deny authorisation? Can dead men get hacked? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago When I die, my assets should go to the people I named as my beneficiaries. If someone else comes along to try and take ownership of my assets, they should definitely be denied. Also, just because I'm dead doesn't mean anyone should have access to my devices, especially if password locked. So I would answer both questions with yes. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) So, Epstein has given out his account details by putting them in an email. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Were those details only used by the people he directly sent them to? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Can dead men either provide or deny authorisation? Can dead men get hacked? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago When I die, my assets should go to the people I named as my beneficiaries. If someone else comes along to try and take ownership of my assets, they should definitely be denied. Also, just because I'm dead doesn't mean anyone should have access to my devices, especially if password locked. So I would answer both questions with yes. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Were those details only used by the people he directly sent them to? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Can dead men either provide or deny authorisation? Can dead men get hacked? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago When I die, my assets should go to the people I named as my beneficiaries. If someone else comes along to try and take ownership of my assets, they should definitely be denied. Also, just because I'm dead doesn't mean anyone should have access to my devices, especially if password locked. So I would answer both questions with yes. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Can dead men either provide or deny authorisation? Can dead men get hacked? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago When I die, my assets should go to the people I named as my beneficiaries. If someone else comes along to try and take ownership of my assets, they should definitely be denied. Also, just because I'm dead doesn't mean anyone should have access to my devices, especially if password locked. So I would answer both questions with yes. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago When I die, my assets should go to the people I named as my beneficiaries. If someone else comes along to try and take ownership of my assets, they should definitely be denied. Also, just because I'm dead doesn't mean anyone should have access to my devices, especially if password locked. So I would answer both questions with yes. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] badgermurphy@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (1 child) You violated the TOS by sharing the details A TOS violation is not the same as breaking the law. If that were the case then every single person on the face on the planet would be a criminal. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] badgermurphy@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago* (1 child) The account holder violated the contract with the serviceprovider. The "hacker" has no agreement with anyone so they violated nothing. They found a key on the ground and used it in a lock. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] badgermurphy@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Yeah. It comes down to Freedom to roam in Northern Europe and squatters rights in the extreme physical parallel. Entering is fine as long as there is no breaking. In the digital relm i would argue that brute forcing a password is like jimmying a lock, but finding a password is like finding a key. But I think your point is the strongest. It doesn't matter what either of us think. It totally depends on the justice system that has jurisdiction and those rules could be anything. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (1 child) You violated the TOS by sharing the details A TOS violation is not the same as breaking the law. If that were the case then every single person on the face on the planet would be a criminal. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] badgermurphy@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago* (1 child) The account holder violated the contract with the serviceprovider. The "hacker" has no agreement with anyone so they violated nothing. They found a key on the ground and used it in a lock. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] badgermurphy@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Yeah. It comes down to Freedom to roam in Northern Europe and squatters rights in the extreme physical parallel. Entering is fine as long as there is no breaking. In the digital relm i would argue that brute forcing a password is like jimmying a lock, but finding a password is like finding a key. But I think your point is the strongest. It doesn't matter what either of us think. It totally depends on the justice system that has jurisdiction and those rules could be anything. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] badgermurphy@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago* (1 child) The account holder violated the contract with the serviceprovider. The "hacker" has no agreement with anyone so they violated nothing. They found a key on the ground and used it in a lock. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] badgermurphy@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Yeah. It comes down to Freedom to roam in Northern Europe and squatters rights in the extreme physical parallel. Entering is fine as long as there is no breaking. In the digital relm i would argue that brute forcing a password is like jimmying a lock, but finding a password is like finding a key. But I think your point is the strongest. It doesn't matter what either of us think. It totally depends on the justice system that has jurisdiction and those rules could be anything. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago* (1 child) The account holder violated the contract with the serviceprovider. The "hacker" has no agreement with anyone so they violated nothing. They found a key on the ground and used it in a lock. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] badgermurphy@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Yeah. It comes down to Freedom to roam in Northern Europe and squatters rights in the extreme physical parallel. Entering is fine as long as there is no breaking. In the digital relm i would argue that brute forcing a password is like jimmying a lock, but finding a password is like finding a key. But I think your point is the strongest. It doesn't matter what either of us think. It totally depends on the justice system that has jurisdiction and those rules could be anything. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] badgermurphy@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Yeah. It comes down to Freedom to roam in Northern Europe and squatters rights in the extreme physical parallel. Entering is fine as long as there is no breaking. In the digital relm i would argue that brute forcing a password is like jimmying a lock, but finding a password is like finding a key. But I think your point is the strongest. It doesn't matter what either of us think. It totally depends on the justice system that has jurisdiction and those rules could be anything. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Yeah. It comes down to Freedom to roam in Northern Europe and squatters rights in the extreme physical parallel. Entering is fine as long as there is no breaking. In the digital relm i would argue that brute forcing a password is like jimmying a lock, but finding a password is like finding a key. But I think your point is the strongest. It doesn't matter what either of us think. It totally depends on the justice system that has jurisdiction and those rules could be anything. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world -3 points 7 months ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) So your claim is that if I sit down at a computer that isn't mine and has no security measures in place, and then open a file, that I have legally "hacked" the computer? The minimal definition you can fall back to is "unauthorized access". But now you have to establish and argue that an unsecured computer/system is off limits to everyone except the owner. Which then opens up a big can of worms with network connected devices, and demonstrates that such basic and literal verbatim interpretation doesn't work in reality. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago (1 child) That's not 'my claim.' That's the law. You can call it hacking or whatever. The legal term is: unauthorized access to a computer system. Think about it in any other way? So I'm just walking down the street... I see a house.. I go open a door.. I open the fridge. Make myself a sandwich. Then go to a bedroom that's not mine. Put on some underwear that isn't mine and leave some stains on the sheets... Why don't you just go rape somebody? And clearly you have authorization to access that vagina or that butthole or mouth or however your fetish desires??? Just tell me you've been on Epstein's Island.... Jfc? Wtf is wrong with you, CeeBee_Eh? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago The legal term is: unauthorized access to a computer system. No, the legal definition is this: In a legal context, hacking is a term for utilizing an unconventional or illicit means to gain unauthorized access to a digital device, computer system, or network. Source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/hacking So this wasn't illicit, because the FBI publicly published the data. So the argument has to be made with "unconventional". This is what I disagree on. Think about it in any other way? So I'm just walking down the street... I see a house.. I go open a door.. I open the fridge. Make myself a sandwich. Then go to a bedroom that's not mine. Put on some underwear that isn't mine and leave some stains on the sheets... That's illegal. There's a law for that. There are also laws that protect digital assets in a similar way, and they fall under Cybercrime. Why don't you just go rape somebody? And clearly you have authorization to access that vagina or that butthole or mouth or however your fetish desires??? Calm down there, Epstein. Just tell me you've been on Epstein's Island.... Jfc? Wtf is wrong with you, CeeBee_Eh? You suck at rage baiting. I'm advocating for exposing more of the emails and not letting people refer to it as "hacking", and you're so enraged by someone disagreeing with you that you literally call that person "Epstein". I know mental health care isn't much of a thing in the US, but please find some help. For all our sakes. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago (1 child) That's not 'my claim.' That's the law. You can call it hacking or whatever. The legal term is: unauthorized access to a computer system. Think about it in any other way? So I'm just walking down the street... I see a house.. I go open a door.. I open the fridge. Make myself a sandwich. Then go to a bedroom that's not mine. Put on some underwear that isn't mine and leave some stains on the sheets... Why don't you just go rape somebody? And clearly you have authorization to access that vagina or that butthole or mouth or however your fetish desires??? Just tell me you've been on Epstein's Island.... Jfc? Wtf is wrong with you, CeeBee_Eh? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago The legal term is: unauthorized access to a computer system. No, the legal definition is this: In a legal context, hacking is a term for utilizing an unconventional or illicit means to gain unauthorized access to a digital device, computer system, or network. Source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/hacking So this wasn't illicit, because the FBI publicly published the data. So the argument has to be made with "unconventional". This is what I disagree on. Think about it in any other way? So I'm just walking down the street... I see a house.. I go open a door.. I open the fridge. Make myself a sandwich. Then go to a bedroom that's not mine. Put on some underwear that isn't mine and leave some stains on the sheets... That's illegal. There's a law for that. There are also laws that protect digital assets in a similar way, and they fall under Cybercrime. Why don't you just go rape somebody? And clearly you have authorization to access that vagina or that butthole or mouth or however your fetish desires??? Calm down there, Epstein. Just tell me you've been on Epstein's Island.... Jfc? Wtf is wrong with you, CeeBee_Eh? You suck at rage baiting. I'm advocating for exposing more of the emails and not letting people refer to it as "hacking", and you're so enraged by someone disagreeing with you that you literally call that person "Epstein". I know mental health care isn't much of a thing in the US, but please find some help. For all our sakes. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago The legal term is: unauthorized access to a computer system. No, the legal definition is this: In a legal context, hacking is a term for utilizing an unconventional or illicit means to gain unauthorized access to a digital device, computer system, or network. Source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/hacking So this wasn't illicit, because the FBI publicly published the data. So the argument has to be made with "unconventional". This is what I disagree on. Think about it in any other way? So I'm just walking down the street... I see a house.. I go open a door.. I open the fridge. Make myself a sandwich. Then go to a bedroom that's not mine. Put on some underwear that isn't mine and leave some stains on the sheets... That's illegal. There's a law for that. There are also laws that protect digital assets in a similar way, and they fall under Cybercrime. Why don't you just go rape somebody? And clearly you have authorization to access that vagina or that butthole or mouth or however your fetish desires??? Calm down there, Epstein. Just tell me you've been on Epstein's Island.... Jfc? Wtf is wrong with you, CeeBee_Eh? You suck at rage baiting. I'm advocating for exposing more of the emails and not letting people refer to it as "hacking", and you're so enraged by someone disagreeing with you that you literally call that person "Epstein". I know mental health care isn't much of a thing in the US, but please find some help. For all our sakes. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] treesapx@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (2 children) The door was unlocked, officer! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Well yes. It would be "unlawful entry" (or whatever it's called) versus "breaking and entering". permalink fedilink source parent [–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago Richard chase vibes Richard Trenton Chase was an American serial killer, cannibal and necrophile known as the Vampire of Sacramento, the Dracula Killer and the Vampire Killer, who killed six people between December 1977 and January 1978 in Sacramento, California. All of Chase's victims were chosen at random. Wikipedia permalink fedilink source parent
[–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Well yes. It would be "unlawful entry" (or whatever it's called) versus "breaking and entering". permalink fedilink source parent
[–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago Richard chase vibes Richard Trenton Chase was an American serial killer, cannibal and necrophile known as the Vampire of Sacramento, the Dracula Killer and the Vampire Killer, who killed six people between December 1977 and January 1978 in Sacramento, California. All of Chase's victims were chosen at random. Wikipedia permalink fedilink source parent
[–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child) Legally it's called hacking. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/hacking permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago* (1 child) The base legal definition of "hacking" is "unauthorized access". Then the trick becomes establishing "unauthorized". The reason this matters is if a website is publicly accessible, then it's assumed to be authorized even though it's not explicitly stated by anyone. However, you are accessing information on a computer system you do not own and were not given explicit permission to access. Now let's say in the HTML or JS there's an endpoint to a backend server that's not directly exposed via online searches or page links. And through that link you are able to expose sensitive data that's not shown on the webpage. Now, how is the definition of "unauthorized access" or "hacking" applied here? Edit: yes this is splitting atoms, but that's the world of legal definitions permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child) Bro, stfu and move on. Its "hacking" in every legal definition. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 child) Don't like being wrong, eh? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago (1 child) Harassment charges. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Says the asshole throwing out accusations of csam because they don't like being contradicted. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago* (1 child) The base legal definition of "hacking" is "unauthorized access". Then the trick becomes establishing "unauthorized". The reason this matters is if a website is publicly accessible, then it's assumed to be authorized even though it's not explicitly stated by anyone. However, you are accessing information on a computer system you do not own and were not given explicit permission to access. Now let's say in the HTML or JS there's an endpoint to a backend server that's not directly exposed via online searches or page links. And through that link you are able to expose sensitive data that's not shown on the webpage. Now, how is the definition of "unauthorized access" or "hacking" applied here? Edit: yes this is splitting atoms, but that's the world of legal definitions permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child) Bro, stfu and move on. Its "hacking" in every legal definition. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 child) Don't like being wrong, eh? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago (1 child) Harassment charges. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Says the asshole throwing out accusations of csam because they don't like being contradicted. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child) Bro, stfu and move on. Its "hacking" in every legal definition. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 child) Don't like being wrong, eh? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago (1 child) Harassment charges. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Says the asshole throwing out accusations of csam because they don't like being contradicted. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 child) Don't like being wrong, eh? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago (1 child) Harassment charges. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Says the asshole throwing out accusations of csam because they don't like being contradicted. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago (1 child) Harassment charges. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Says the asshole throwing out accusations of csam because they don't like being contradicted. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Says the asshole throwing out accusations of csam because they don't like being contradicted. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (1 child) Or having the FBI leak your password and you using it without authorization. Legally it 100% falls under hacking in the USA. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/hacking First sentence. You don't have to have stolen the password, if you login to another account, and someone proves you did, you can be charged if they want to pursue it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago In a legal context, hacking is a term for utilizing an unconventional or illicit means to gain unauthorized access to a digital device, computer system, or network. We can rule out "illicit" because the FBI published the data publicly. Now the heavy lifting has to be done by "unconventional", which I don't think qualifies here. A government agency published the credentials, which means no one had to do social engineering, sneak into an office, reverse engineer anything, or even guess a person's birthday. Now if this somehow went to court, a judge might rule that this qualifies as hacking, but my opinion is that it doesn't. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago In a legal context, hacking is a term for utilizing an unconventional or illicit means to gain unauthorized access to a digital device, computer system, or network. We can rule out "illicit" because the FBI published the data publicly. Now the heavy lifting has to be done by "unconventional", which I don't think qualifies here. A government agency published the credentials, which means no one had to do social engineering, sneak into an office, reverse engineer anything, or even guess a person's birthday. Now if this somehow went to court, a judge might rule that this qualifies as hacking, but my opinion is that it doesn't. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago @FBI this guy has illegal shit on their computer. Probably child porn. permalink fedilink source parent