view the rest of the comments
MeanwhileOnGrad

"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
Welcome to MoG!
Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
What is a Tankie?
Alternatively, a detailed blog post about Tankies.
(caution of biased source)
Basic Rules:
Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. — Basically, don't be a dick.
Hate-Speech — You should be familiar with this one already; practically all instances have the same rules on hate speech.
Apologia — (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether it be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.
Revisionism — No downplaying or denying atrocities past and present. Calling Tankies shills, foreign/federal agents, or bots also falls under this rule. Extremists exist. They are real. Do not call them shills or fake users, as it handwaves their extremism.
Off-topic Discussion — Do not discuss unrelated topics to the point of derailing the thread. Stay focused on the direct content of the post, rather than engaging in arguments that lack mutual agreement.
Brigading — If you're here because this community was linked in another thread, please refrain from voting, commenting, or manipulating the post in any way. This includes alt accounts. All votes are public, and if you are found to be brigading, you will be banned.
Tankies can explain their views, but may be criticised or challenged for them. Any minor infraction of the rules may result in a warning and possibly a temporary ban.
You'll be warned if you're violating the instance and community rules. Continuing poor behaviour after being warned will result in a ban or removal of your comments. Bans typically last only 24 hours, but each subsequent infraction doubles the duration. Depending on the content, the ban time may be increased. You may request an unban at any time.
At least in Europe, serfdom (which is basically slavery barring some minor distinctions) only came to an end due to the plague, which limited the supply of able bodied workers so drastically, other lords began to offer to actually pay another lord's slaves/serfs to work their land.
Slavery in the rest of the world ended for various reasons, but a big one was moral objection, not that managing slaves become less efficient (AFAIK, anyway. The Confederacy in the US only ceased slavery due to being psychically stopped from a more powerful adversary. They would've continued, and indeed would've expanded the slave trade to new territory as planned, had they not been stopped. Remember, those merchants taking power were also gleefully profiting off of the slave trade, which was one of their 'commodities').
But If anything, slavery has only ever increased, as there are now more people in US prisons alone than there were slaves before the Civil War, and they're often doing labor for pennies on the dollar. And since private prisons profit from having more prisoners, they've even sued the state when they aren't happy with how little prisoners they get.
From the archeological evidence presented in the book 'The Dawn of Everything' by David Graeber and David Wengrow; humans were able to sustain egalitarian societies as both hunter gatherer and after agriculture was discovered. It is only quite recently in our species existence that authoritarian hierarchies seemed to develop, and not necessarily due to an environmental need. There is no technical reason slavery had to develop, it was simply performed and enacted due to the benefit it gave the owning group.
There's examples of slave-owning hunter gatherers presented as well, with neighboring tribes finding that behavior disgusting and refusing to participate in it, even taking in escaped slaves from those slave owning tribes.
Highly recommend reading it if you have the time, it's quite a compelling book. (Alternatively one of the authors gave a very (very) condensed talk about it at a TED talk here, and a longer interview about it here at Novara Media).
But at least in my view, it's clear that the evidence we have at hand shows this mode of society we live in that's highly hierarchical, competitive, individually selfish to the extreme, and operates on artificial scarcity, is quite the aberration from the norm.
It's all very fascinating. I wouldn't mind being in a hunter-gatherer society, but I love my technology too much.
i wonder what the turning point was.
I think the crux of what Graeber and Wengrow get at, is that history shows us we can be an agricultural technological society without the unnecessary authoritarianism, hierarchy, or capitalism. This inherent but actively suppressed ability of humanity was demonstrated in Catalonia during the Spanish Civil War. It was the closest we ever got to getting out of the rut we somehow got ourselves into all those thousands of years ago.