Exploding-heads.com is another instance on Lemmy where alt-right MAGA types tend to reside. Some people on this server want us to defederate from them immediately, some people want to save defederation as a last resort. They have 104 active users (more stats below).
It seems that exploding-heads has also experienced a recent botswarm invasion. This is obviously another point in favor of defederating them, assuming you are worried about botswarms, which is currently being discussed here.
My advice to you all is please try to discuss this in a civil manner, we need not allow them to create divisive conflict inside our communities. No matter how the vote turns out, you're not going to be able to defederate from your fellow sh.itheads so be nice.
I've linked many of the previous discussions below so people who are out of the loop can get a general sense of the situation.
https://sh.itjust.works/post/216888 https://sh.itjust.works/post/225714 https://sh.itjust.works/post/281126 https://sh.itjust.works/post/410325
Lemmy.world just recently defederated them.
https://lemmy.world/post/747912
https://lemmy.world/post/577526
Although this could be considered a point in favor of defederation, it actually means even if we vote to remain federated, people have a great alternative in lemmy.world where they can still participate in our communities and simultaneously be protected from exploding-heads.
Ensuring diversity of servers is beneficial to the platform as a whole, but it is also not our responsibility to bear that burden.
TLDR, just wrap up any last points in this thread before we open the vote tomorrow. Please be civil.
EDIT: To clarify, this isn't the official vote, this is the final discussion. The vote thread will be posted tomorrow and you will only be allowed to make a single comment saying Aye or Nay.
EDIT2: Vote thread is up, this thread is now locked. Very lively discussion thread sh.itheads. Please try to be more respectful next time.
This may be an incredibly stupid question, but don’t we, as individual users, have the option to block/mute instances we don’t want to see content from?
If so, I think that it should be left to the individual, rather than the instance.
I don’t like what I’ve seen from them, or from lemmygrad, so I tend to just ignore it.
Unfortunately we do not. We can block individual communities and users, but that also isn't perfect. I was getting pinged from a community I blocked a while ago because I left a post up there, and had to unblock the community to go delete the post in order to stop it, for example.
Ahh crap. Well hopefully in the future, that option to block an instance will be an option for users. I like the idea of users having control over the content they see, rather than it being decided by others.
But, since this isn’t an option available to us now, maybe defederating (if that’s what the majority wants) is the most viable option.
I said “option” no fewer than 260 times. My bad lol
I gave you some extras above in case you ran out, no worries
I agree, but also I think defederation isn't the bogeyman it's being made out to be. Remember that when instances are federated, they download, store, and transmit information from each other. Sh.itjust.works is currently hosting alt-right stuff from e-h. There are plenty of things I don't like that I'd be fine just blocking myself, but I also have a line, which e-h crosses, where I am no longer willing to be an active member of a server that's okay with hosting and amplifying that signal. Even if I could block the instance from all my feeds, I'd leave sh.itjust.works for being a passive supporter of that stuff. I definitely wouldn't donate to help pay for server costs, or try to increase traffic by hosting a community on it.
There are, however, plenty of cases where I - as someone who comes here to relax - would prefer to block particular instances and to have better control over blocking specific users and communities, but would not be put out by the instance as a whole still being okay with that content. This isn't that. And as I've said elsewhere, if the community disagrees, that's fine. I'll go somewhere else, where the instance better reflects my values. I largely already have.
Option option option option <-- you may add this in there wherever you like, since you clearly love the word 😋
Lol I almost responded with, “I appreciate the options.”
Crazy day today, and my brain is burnt!
For the record, I enjoy conversations like this. Helps the community (so long as everyone stays civil) and, hopefully, will lead to us all having a place we can enjoy.
I chuckled good at that. And I too enjoy conversations like this, no worries. This thread has mostly been nice, intelligent discussion and I've liked it.
(bit concerned as it seems the trolls are now coming in, but I won't doomsay yet)
I always like when I see your face pop up. Very grounded takes.
Thank you! I appreciate that! I was slightly hesitant about saying anything, because I certainly don’t want to appear as some apologist for bad behavior.
I guess I’m just super laid back and, if it bothers me, I’ll unplug it lol.
Same. But I also respect that most people are more sensitive, so I always try to understand and discuss what is upsetting to them.
It's not so much about sensitivity, it's literally decades long experience of what happens when you allow the alt-right to infect a community.
I'm not the only one on this forum who has been around long enough to see the same old tactics popping up over and over. Experience has proved that people like the explodingheads mods argue in bad faith, their only objective is to disrupt and recruit the naive. Giving them a platform never ends well.
Both extremist wings (lemmygrad on the tankie left - whose banning seemed to be uncontroversial) act in the same negative way, however I would note that as far as I've seen the tankies haven't sent over minions to disrupt sh.itjust.works
I have. they're mostly on lemmy.ml, if you see an account posting tankie-related or pro-communist content, look up their username on grad, most of the time they have an alt there. There is documentation of this on MeanwhileOnGrad
Cool, so defederation worked, we don't have to see their bollocks here. Sounds like a good case for axing EH to me.
No, it didn't work because they just made alts instead.
Really ? So you've been seeing tankies on here ? I don't suppose you can link to any for me ? Because all I've seen are a few fash defending hate speech, not so much from the other extremists.
By here, do you mean sh.it or the fediverse as a whole? Since I'd be mighty curious to see fash defending hatespeech on sh.it
I reckon a few have gone over to troll exploding-heads too with the recent drama.
https://sh.itjust.works/u/[email protected]
https://sh.itjust.works/u/[email protected]
Noticed these two earlier today. Or maybe that's some of our guys 😅. No way to know
TheDude blocked lemmygrad from day one, so the situations have no comparison.
I guess I just don't ascribe the same level of deviousness (or competence) to the alt-right as you do. In my view, the reality is that they are not very bright and they have latched onto an ideology that assuages their cognitive dissonance.
I don't necessarily believe that they are trying to infiltrate our communities, I actually believe that they would prefer to simply have their own space to be conservative/offensive without getting downvoted, banned, and trolled.
Ultimately, I simply refuse to accept that the users on this server would fall prey to such recruiting efforts. Does this strike you as a naive group? Damn near everyone here has been on the internet for decades.
That being said, I hear you. I will not be recommending or voting one way or the other, and I wont miss them when they're gone. I am simply trying to uphold the integrity of the debate.
Cool, so we defederate them and they can go be offensively conservative (is that a new euphemism for fascist now ?) in their own little world, inciting hatred of minorities to their heart's content, and the rest of us can go on arguing about what ever more rational things we want to argue about - who is the better football team or which linux distro is better.
Or, we do nothing and the exact same outcome ensues. Hence why I'm not even bothering to vote.
I tend to agree. I’m pretty torn between “leave it in the hands on the user” and “get this garbage out of here.”
In the end, though, my desire for personal freedoms tends to override my need to correct what I view as wrong.
Such a weird position to be in lol