Anarchism

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Are you an Anarchist? The answer might surprise you!

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Human and Animal Liberation (lemmy.world)

submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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Over the centuries humans have folded themselves into power structures that benefit the few at the expense of the many. In the same way that the imperialist subjugates and exploits the third world and the capitalist exploits the worker, the human has positioned itself at the top of an explotative and murderous relationship to nonhuman animals. The beneficiaries of the status quo will emphasise their personal benefits, while refusing to acknowledge even so much as the existence, let alone the moral value, of their victims. When forced to engage with them, the justifications are often times the same - considering the outgroup to be deserving of oppression due to a perceived lack of valuable traits, be it intelligence, the ability to "contribute" to society or emotional "depth". If we let our morality only apply to our chosen ingroup rather than extending it to all sentient life, we will inadvertantly leave intact the same unjust power structures we readily criticise in the rest of society. Working towards a life that doesn't contribute to animal exploitation is not just possible but necessary. Go vegan.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I find it difficult to accept your description of a vegan lifestyle, being subsumed and made digestible by mainstream vegans who don't care much for the politics aspect. I don't believe that accounts for the majority of vegans, at least based on the surveys I've looked at. Perhaps I am wrong and many vegans just don't really care, but based on my experiences, I just find that a little hard to accept.

Also, on the topic of hunting locally sourced meat, I think it's sort of irrelevant to the discussion of veganism. Regardless of my, or another vegan's opinion of how ethical it is, hunting doesn't provide enough quantity of meat to ever fulfill every human being's current demand for meat. To be able to provide good, healthy and ethical food for everyone, the majority of it would have to be plants. The end of monoculture crops and factory farming cannot possibly happen without a significant reduction of demand for animal meat in developed countries, regardless of how the meat is sourced.

It's not that I aim to villify hunting, it's just that hunting is neither here nor there, in my opinion. It is what it is, and I'm not primarily concerned with it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Our difference in perception and empirical experience may be political in itself. Let's assume the vast majority politically belong on the left side of the spectrum but a significant portion may be morally on the general left but don't care much about specifics. In my mind those that really count as being political are anti-capitalists, reformers are just as procapitalist as any. Specifically, there are those that think that without ending capitalism, this aspect of consumption can change, and people can stop consuming animal products as a moral choice. Others think there is nothing you can change within capitalism that can make a significant change, markets and governments adjust to consumer habits, but in general markets shape consumer habits and not the other way around.

It takes 8 times more land to produce beef than it takes to produce vegetables with nearly all the nutrients on would get from beed. There was an estimate in late 20th century that there were 300 more cows on the planet than they were in late 19th century. Both those numbers if nearing truth are political (economo-political as per land use) and this makes the proposal (veganism) very political, but it never walks far enough as a moral choice.

If it wasn't for the exploitation part (of workers that produce animal products) which is ultimately producing wealth (profit), would beef be promoted? Dairy products? Poultry? It is the system of exploitation of humans that is the motive for this overproduction. In Marx's time agriculture wasn't yet intensified and tuned for maximum profit, so it was perceived as not industrial. 20th century development made agriculture a real industry with specific stages and specialties of the process and labor organization just if it was a Ford plant.

In any case, I think consumer-based movements are a-political and lead to nothing other than fashion that capitalism can further exploit and digest into profitable businesses. In the case of individual electric substitution of oil/gas consuming machines, the "green" alternative to power production, not only is a fad it is developing as a disaster of an ecological problem. It has promoted energy industry to take over public lands in alarming rates, even coastal and deep sea areas in international waters, and minining and recycling of toxic metals has gone up 7 fold in just a few decades, yet oil consumption and carbon oxide production is going up and up. This land use pressures the food production and reliance to industrial agriculture even more, leaving populations absolutely dependent on markets for survival.

Eat up on Cavendish bananas, they are about to become extinct. Take a picture while you do so, as proof to the next generation that there was such a thing as a banana. Unrelated to the subject? I don't think so, an industrial product challenging the ecosystem and losing.