Hey all. I'd like to open an official discussion regarding the upturning of the prior Hexbear party line on an :israel-cool: emote proper with the unambiguous Zionist flag.
I want to preface this by saying this is not in a 'ceding the issue' way. Over the past year I've been trying to engage in self-crit w/rt the chauvinism I've internalized growing up in a Liberal Zionist household, and my personal viewpoint on it did a 180 some months back, so I want to reopen this discussion proper in my personal capacities as Self-Appointed Emote Czar.
The reason it's taken long enough beyond that is prior to July, I was essentially half-engaged with the site in order to finish out my degree. After that, it’s been mostly inertia of confirming with the admins and other /c/Judaism mods, as well as having to be rigorous about my job search personally giving me little free time to coordinate this.
I do not want to center myself in this conversation more than I inadvertently already have, so I will leave my own opinion on the issue as a comment rather than explaining further here.
The consensus we've roughly come to is to open up the discussion in an official manner for a day or so. After that, I'll weigh the discussion in an entirely vibes-based manner (sorry Dean Norris enjoyers) and we'll alter Hexbear party line on it accordingly.
Ugh, just shut up. Accusing Nakoichi of being a Zionist is bad faith and the worst they are guilty of is getting a little heated at times.
While I do think that the emoji should be updated, it is a weird fucking hill to die on, and misrepresenting the material conditions for not having the Star of David on the flag is gross. I believe that the decision was made before October 7th, and it was a lose/lose situation where if you have the Star of David on the flag, people will smear you as an anti-Semite who hates Jewish people, because you want to throw Jews in the oven or something. And now people like you are arguing “you’re conflating Jewish people with Israel which is anti-Semitic” while ignoring the context behind the original decision to exclude it.
And we can continue to argue this bullshit all night, I could make the argument that removing the Star of David from the flag of Israel is wise, because it separates the Jewish identity from Israel and removes the association of Jewish people and zionists, helping Jewish folk reclaim their symbol from the Zionist entity.
But why the fuck should any of us waste time bickering about this subject further? Maybe we should put our energy into better shit then semantic arguments?
They're doing it again too, I specifically said I don't care one way or another whether we have the emoji or not just that I have seen at least one actual anti-semite beg for it to be included. So much bad faith and disingenuous shit leveled at me over this just because I am sick of Z_poster being an asshole.
You are deliberately misinterpret any criticism that comes your way. I never called you a Zionist, I said your talking points are Zionist, and they are regardless of the context you think I’m missing. There are many non antisemitic reasons for why someone could think that the replacement idf flag is not sufficient. For 1, the violence and crimes of the zionist state are not just committed by it’s terrorist army, they are imbedded in the states very constitution. For 2, the initial reasonings that were given to not include the real zionist cool flag were bad even if there was a consensus at the time. The zionist state has always been extremely violent and completely illegitimate and it has always used the star of david prominently in all of it’s terrorist acts. Affirming the religious value of its terrorist flag is an insult to anyone who has suffered from the crimes that were committed under it.
Those points are a topics of discussion and there might be users with disagreements on it. Discarding Z_poster’s additions to this discussion by implying they’re antisemitic is a just cheap way to not actually engage with it. Worse than cheap, it legitimises zionist attempts to discard any criticism on the zionist project as antisemitic. That last part is what I take issue with. Especially 2 years in the violent escalation of the genocide. If you have such a big issue with that user you can refer to those issues directly. But just attacking them with zionist talking points is, as I said earlier, gross.