Hey all. I'd like to open an official discussion regarding the upturning of the prior Hexbear party line on an :israel-cool: emote proper with the unambiguous Zionist flag.
I want to preface this by saying this is not in a 'ceding the issue' way. Over the past year I've been trying to engage in self-crit w/rt the chauvinism I've internalized growing up in a Liberal Zionist household, and my personal viewpoint on it did a 180 some months back, so I want to reopen this discussion proper in my personal capacities as Self-Appointed Emote Czar.
The reason it's taken long enough beyond that is prior to July, I was essentially half-engaged with the site in order to finish out my degree. After that, it’s been mostly inertia of confirming with the admins and other /c/Judaism mods, as well as having to be rigorous about my job search personally giving me little free time to coordinate this.
I do not want to center myself in this conversation more than I inadvertently already have, so I will leave my own opinion on the issue as a comment rather than explaining further here.
The consensus we've roughly come to is to open up the discussion in an official manner for a day or so. After that, I'll weigh the discussion in an entirely vibes-based manner (sorry Dean Norris enjoyers) and we'll alter Hexbear party line on it accordingly.
I gather from the comments there isn't an emoji for burning the israeli flag. I thought I had seen it but I'm nowhere near the emoji/meme connoisseur of the average hexbear. Assumed there was a burning flag emoji for all the shitty countries, maybe even all the countries. There is this one
? idk wtf that's supposed to be??
It sounds like there is a question of whether it is (or could be perceived as) antisemitic to burn an israeli flag because it contains an ostensibly religious symbol. And/or claims/concerns that burning anything with a star or david is an approving allusion to the ovens of nazi death camps.
I am frankly surprised to learn anyone on this site would hold such an opinion. From reading the comments, it is a policy from a long time ago and events of the past 2 years have clarified the situation for almost everyone.
I tried to find if there was a thing of burning stars of david by nazis or during the holocaust. I couldn't find any, do they exist? It strikes me as a conflation of various things. Clothing with stars of david, ovens to dispose of bodies during the holocaust, and maybe burning crosses by the KKK? Is that the substance of the argument?
I made a post a while ago about anti-semitism; it is on my mind. But this is so plainly not it. The flag of israel represents an evil project, which serves imperialism and capitalism in every way. The difference between a religion/culture and a state ought to be graspable for anyone.
whether the person should be banned: what is the thread at question?
heres the main relevant comment thread: https://hexbear.net/comment/6419306 warning: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ahead
lmao, this sentence alone should've pre-empted any struggle session and sealed the "debate" forever, literally a case of reality hoisting you up by your own petard, the sickening realization that you Hexbear (on this specific issue) was accidentally more zionist than the US government until they caught up WITH YOU, OOOF YIKES
But like most struggle sessions in white dominated left spaces, this is the result of guilt mediated thru post hoc rationalizations, stop being crackers, correct the mistake and move on
fuck me, why are we having this new thread? the arguments are thoroughly explained in that one. At least, the pro-emoji arguments. The small anti-emoji contingent appear to be spinning and resorting to various extremely ineffective bad faith strategies instead of putting anything coherent forward. I remain surprised about this position having been site policy for so long and there doesn't seem to be a single person who can intelligently and sincerely state the case.
(I'm about 2/3 down the page, maybe there will be surprise logic closer to the end....)
from what I've gathered the historical ""line"" was that burning a star of david feels icky (i get it, but ultimately ceding ground to the cynical utilitarianism of the nakba settlers), followed by "well it gives ammunition to external bad actors", but also simultaneously "this is a small and insignificant site so why do you care about it go touch grass".
My hopes for logic to emerge at the end of the thread you posted were dashed. The small anti-israel-flag-burning crew resorted to tirades that other users oughtta "touch grass". When faced with multiple people taking the time to make serious posts addressing each of their vague/lazy claims, they countered with "well this argument is so stupid!! and you are stupid for even having it!!!"
Not impressed.
I love the "this is stupid and a waste" argument in particular because it shows they don't actually consider that there's another side. They think that their position is the default and attempts to argue against it are inherently wrong
Also like, no one who's not a fascist should have to worry about catching verbal abuse and death wishes for posting their opinion here. imo.
Sounds kind of zionist, if you ask me
That flag
is a custom job by OP replacing the Star of David with Lehi's sigil
it was created the time before the last we had this same struggle session 2 years ago