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submitted 2 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

China deployed its embassies to spread doubts about the performance of French-made Rafale jets after they saw combat in India and Pakistan’s clashes in May, French military and intelligence officials have concluded, implicating Beijing in an effort to hammer the reputation and sales of France’s flagship fighter.

Findings from a French intelligence service seen by The Associated Press say defense attaches in China’s foreign embassies led a charge to undermine Rafale sales, seeking to persuade countries that have already ordered the French-made fighter — notably Indonesia — not to buy more and to encourage other potential buyers to choose Chinese-made planes.

The findings were shared with AP by a French military official on condition that the official and the intelligence service not be named.

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[-] [email protected] 8 points 2 days ago

So, was it true that Indian Rafale's were downed by the Chinese-made Pakistani fighters or...? Can anyone elucidate us a bit on the topic?

[-] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago

Yes, due to pilot error. Only a single jet was provably downed and India said they were perfectly happy with the performance of the jet.

China is in conflit with India, they want the worst outcome possible for them, which would be to make the Rafale, which wins air competitions left and right, irrelevant.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

The "pilot error" in question

Also not a Rafale, but you get the idea of IAF's reputation:

https://x.com/MenchOsint/status/1921608777687560535

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago

This missile, just like all missiles, is just a glorified engine and a guidance system. Therefore it is a lot more maneuverable than a jet, be it Chinese or French. It even has a term called the "no-escape zone" beyond which a plane can't escape the missile.

The pilot error therefore comes down to bad tactics/strategy and allowed themselves to get within that zone.

Whatever you think of the indian military losing planes when they have the attacker's disadvantage and strict orders not to escalate the conflict by preemptively destroying the anti-air defenses and such, the error happened likely before the missile was even launched. And even then, the rafale is one of the most manoeuverable pmanes in the world, due to its innate aerodynamic instability that's tamed by a complex fly-by-wire system. If one plane had a chance to escape the missile, it was the rafale.

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this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2025
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